Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why are there so few black people in STEM?

labroots.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 212 posts

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#81

Post by jazzyk »

Impossible wrote: post #44
cocktailpeanuts wrote: post #36

People insinuate this is some sort of racism, but it actually has more to do with the incentive. People tend to be heavily influenced by their environment as they grow up. And if the majority of your peers see X as being "cool", that's what a lot of people will try to achieve. For example, during high school years, the "popular kids" are the jocks who play sports, not a geek who plays with code all day (although this…

In computer science, access to computers and being able to freely use, modify and program them is critical. Many Black adults had no or limited computer access as children. Even kids that did need to know that's it's possible to create software , which might require an adult that knows it also, and importantly be allowed to actually do so. Computers are expensive enough that many Black families would keep kids from u…

I disagree - many inner-city youths are into super-expensive sneakers ($300 and up), golden chains and other status symbols dictated by the social environment they grow up in. Computers are just not cool enough. Yes, there are exceptions, but the stereotype - unfortunately - mostly holds..

More money helps to a point, but what these young people need more than anything is appropriate role models (engineers, scientists, etc). Yes, I know, easier said than done...

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#82

Post by scarface74 »

Impossible wrote: post #70
scarface74 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple and Microsoft have both been around since the early 80s. Yes I realize that Microsoft isn’t included in the FAANG acronym, but it’s much larger than Netflix.

True, this could apply to Apple or Microsoft. Microsoft especially had poor interview practices in the past (lightbulb puzzle style brainteasers). Anecdotally I don't know of any Black parents that discouraged their children from going into tech due to a poor or biased interview experience. I know many Black engineers with a parent that was an engineer and encouraged them to go into th field. Lack of awareness, many…

That’s true. I grew up in the 80s with an Apple //e. I was programming in Basic and assembly by the time I hit high school. But, that was only because my mom knew college professors that could find books from other colleges - there was no internet back then.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#83

Post by deogeo »

Ghjklov wrote: post #74
deogeo wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would it also be okay to suggest Asians are over-represented because of unearned Asian privilege? What about suggesting whites are (hypothetically) over-represented because they've made attaining education a priority? Forgive me for noticing, but "one-sided" doesn't even begin to describe this debate.

>Would it also be okay to suggest Asians are over-represented because of unearned Asian privilege? That would be an incredibly stupid and unequivocally false thing to suggest because the odds are actually stacked against Asians, and they must work harder than most other people to achieve the same thing. Asians have earned everything they've attained in this country. They deserve whatever success they've gotten, and f…

Really? But according to mappingpoliceviolence.org, unarmed white people are killed by police at twice the rate of unarmed Asians, relative to their share of the population.

Japan [1] and China [2,3] are openly ethno-nationalist, and India is even attempting to conduct demographic displacement in Kashmir [4]. Clearly Asians are just as capable of racism. Do you believe immigration into the US turns them all into die-hard egalitarians? Or would they continue treating their co-ethnics preferentially, as well as benefitting from their heritage and background, such as strong family ties, emphasis on education, etc. (the definition of privilege when applied to whites)?

[1] https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2005/10/18/national/aso-sa...

[2] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/23/world/asia/china-green-ca...

[3] https://www.quora.com/How-hard-is-it-to-immigrate-to-China

[4] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/08/08/kashmirs-new...

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#84

Post by scarface74 »

CyanLite2 wrote: post #79
scarface74 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For context: I am Black. I think it’s a pipeline problem. How many Blacks are graduating from top schools in STEM? I didn’t graduate from a top school at all. But that was back in the mid 90s and by choice. I just needed a degree. I knew I could get a job and be competitive with anyone being self taught in both C and a variety of assembly languages. I just got a job at Amazon under AWS Professional Services. I got a…

I'm black too, but I've had the opposite experience. Turned down at Google, Microsoft, and a few other Top N tech companies. Is it because I'm black? Probably not. But throughout all of the interviews, I've never met or seen another black engineer on the teams, let alone interviewed by one. It's hard enough to get through the hackerrank-style "gotcha" questions, but it's even harder to feel connected to an interviewe…

My virtual interviews with AWS were very structured and very much focused on soft skill questions and “describe your projects”. My only technical interview was the first one before I went through “the loop”.

Anyone who studied for the AWS Architect Associate could pass it.

Of course, I did have a resume that showed a lot of real world experience with AWS in particular and leading technical projects in general -thanks to working at small companies.

I wouldn’t make it past the first 10 minutes of an algorithm style interview for a software dev position at $BigTech at this point in my life. I knew my way in would be through the consulting department.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#85

Post by requin246 »

neffy wrote: post #71
eikenberry wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like there are 2 problems with this. First is that the federal government doesn't have the legal standing to take over the education system. I believe it would require a constitutional amendment to allow it and I don't think they'd get that passed. Secondly, I'm not sure it is such a great idea. Currently federal level education direction comes from the teachers union and you can see the fruits of its labors in…

There's not really a lot of debate about what makes for good schools. Small class sizes, and well qualified(paid) teachers. It is that simple. You can try whatever alternative educational styles you want, and it will not work in a class size of 50. Nor does the federal government have to take over the education system to achieve this, it just has to guarantee equal funding for all students. Or the US can continue to…

The actions of parents are also a huge factor in the success of a school. If your parents make your students do their homework you can move forward with material in class quicker. They also will send children to after-school programs, which has a similar effect.

Parents are also somewhat a defense against bad teachers. There’s nothing quite like a parent hounding you and your principal about their child’s academic performance.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#87

Post by bobthepanda »

Udik wrote: post #48
CyanLite2 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe because there were 300 years of systemic natural selection in this country called "slavery" where black Americans were bought/sold and bred based solely on their physical attributes?

Do you realize that this is full-fledged, genetics-based racism?

That is what slavery produced, yes.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#88

Post by klyrs »

cocktailpeanuts wrote: post #36

People insinuate this is some sort of racism, but it actually has more to do with the incentive. People tend to be heavily influenced by their environment as they grow up. And if the majority of your peers see X as being "cool", that's what a lot of people will try to achieve. For example, during high school years, the "popular kids" are the jocks who play sports, not a geek who plays with code all day (although this…

> People tend to be heavily influenced by their environment as they grow up.

Are you referring to the country's history of slavery, segregation and mass incarceration? Because I'd agree that "the environment" that black people are raised in is definitely shaped by racism, past and present. That you acknowledge its existence as a footnote makes me think you're underestimating the impact of 400 years of treating people as sub-human.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#89

Post by emmelaich »

neffy wrote: post #71
eikenberry wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like there are 2 problems with this. First is that the federal government doesn't have the legal standing to take over the education system. I believe it would require a constitutional amendment to allow it and I don't think they'd get that passed. Secondly, I'm not sure it is such a great idea. Currently federal level education direction comes from the teachers union and you can see the fruits of its labors in…

There's not really a lot of debate about what makes for good schools. Small class sizes, and well qualified(paid) teachers. It is that simple. You can try whatever alternative educational styles you want, and it will not work in a class size of 50. Nor does the federal government have to take over the education system to achieve this, it just has to guarantee equal funding for all students. Or the US can continue to…

You need teachers who are passionate and regard it as a vocation rather than just another job. Pay and qualifications don't necessarily imply this.

Poor discipline in a school can demoralise a teacher.

You also need to get rid of teachers who are badly underperforming. This can be very difficult, which is also demoralising.

I've gleaned the above from having many family and extended family members in teaching.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#90

Post by bobthepanda »

tomohawk wrote: post #80
neffy wrote: post #10

For the same reason there are so few poor whites in STEM. America's dysfunctional education funding. Make education funding federal, and have a nationwide push to have small classes and well funded schools for everybody, and this would be fixed in 10 years. As it is, rich districts pay more taxes and get better schools. Funny that.

Can you provide any information that shows that per pupil spending and/or small class size correlates to better outcomes? Since the US Dept of Ed was created by Jimmy Carter, can you show positive results and benefits of this approach?

> Since the US Dept of Ed was created by Jimmy Carter, can you show positive results and benefits of this approach?

The Dept of Ed is pretty far removed from what the grandfather comment is advocating for, so I'm not sure why they would advocate for it.

It doesn't establish curricula, it doesn't run schools, it doesn't even run accreditations. 92% of current funding for primary and secondary education is state or local-level.

Post reply on HN