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Tear Gas Is Way More Dangerous Than Police Let On - Especially During COVID

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Re: Tear Gas Is Way More Dangerous Than Police Let On - Especially During COVID

#91

Post by grawprog »

influx wrote: post #83
dekhn wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there's got to be some relevant detail missing here, pepper spray wouldn't cause your eyes to disintegrate in the way you described.

I wonder if it's just from the force of the propellant at too close a range. Can't be good for the eye.

This probably had a lot to do with it, I wasn't implying the tear gas itself can melt eyes. But used that way, at close range it can be more damaging than a firearm. She also ended up with some respiratory problems, but I don't know much about that, it wasn't part of my girlfriend's work.

Re: Tear Gas Is Way More Dangerous Than Police Let On - Especially During COVID

#92

Post by ineedasername »

nostromo wrote: post #55
stefan_ wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this peak HN? People are protesting outside at great risk to themselves because they secretly hated Coronavirus restrictions and want to party? What level of deranged unawareness would ever make you say that?

While I don't think it's a conspiracy, I am convinced that the civil unrest was directly tied to the lockdowns. Floyd's death is the acute cause for the protests, but we've had these protests before and they were much milder. Add mass unemployment, economic uncertainty, closed bars, closed parks, shelter-in-place orders, zero entertainment, no sports, etc., and you suddenly have an explosive situation.

It also means a lot of people don't have to worry about missing work to attend protests. In a way, we may be seeing the actual, truthful level of outrage that has always been inflamed by such events, when the expression of that outrage is not held back economic concerns.

Re: Tear Gas Is Way More Dangerous Than Police Let On - Especially During COVID

#93

Post by anigbrowl »

xwowsersx wrote: post #42
anigbrowl wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forcibly is being used rather hyperbolically here, don't you think? Some business owners that opened in defiance of local public health orders received fines or license suspensions, that's not equivalent.

It's hyperbolic in one sense, but not in another. Consider the fact that every law is backed by an implicit threat of force. For example, it's easy to say "I'm just asking for everyone to pay their fair share" when referring to taxes. But what happens when you don't pay your taxes? You can be arrested and jailed. That is underlying threat of force. Related: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly_on_violence

An implicit threat of force is very different from an explicit application of it. Feeling disgruntled (perhaps by proxy) over a small fine is not the same as being actually beaten, gassed, or jailed.

You're not teaching me anything I don't already know, so what point are you attempting to make here?

Re: Tear Gas Is Way More Dangerous Than Police Let On - Especially During COVID

#94

Post by ineedasername »

war1025 wrote: post #5
vore wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe the fact that everyone is suddenly all for mass protests suggests that police brutality is a horrible forever unaddressed injustice that doesn't care if there's a pandemic or not?

> doesn't care if there's a pandemic or not There are many people that don't care if there is a pandemic of not. They were forcibly kept away from their jobs and families for three months.

Not caring if there is a pandemic does not absolve people of actions they take that endanger others as a result of their disregard for the situation.

Re: Tear Gas Is Way More Dangerous Than Police Let On - Especially During COVID

#95

Post by alpha_squared »

agensaequivocum wrote: post #62
alpha_squared wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the argument, then, that protestors should wait until police brutality results in another death when it is more convenient to protest?

Well no. I actually support peaceful protest. But you cannot in good faith argue that people who are protesting the lock downs don't care about killing grandma then, turn around and say that protesting police brutality is fine, since killing grandma would still be a brutal act of evil and you cannot do an intrinsic evil thing to bring about a good.

I agree that it is a less-than-ideal time to protest police brutality and racial injustice. However, I'd argue still - when is? Minorities are also disproportionately impacted by the pandemic which is highly relevant to both addressing the health crisis and racial injustice. Again, when should all this be addressed?

The people protesting the lock-downs appeared to largely be protesting lifestyle inconvenience. Whether that was the actual case or not, I don't know and I'd love to learn more from any sources you could share.

Re: Tear Gas Is Way More Dangerous Than Police Let On - Especially During COVID

#96

Post by nine_k »

stefan_ wrote: post #39
war1025 wrote: post #2

> Especially During COVID Public gatherings are supposedly extremely dangerous right now. The fact that everyone is suddenly all for mass protests suggests we got the severity of Coronavirus wrong and people are using this as a convenient out for backing off shelter in place orders without losing face. In February the "Philly had a parade, St Louis Stayed home" article was being shared by here and everywhere else. Fr…

Is this peak HN? People are protesting outside at great risk to themselves because they secretly hated Coronavirus restrictions and want to party? What level of deranged unawareness would ever make you say that?

The user you're replying to has a point.

Now it's stay-at-home time. People think: I wish to go visit my friend, but no, it's not allowsd due the quarantine. I fish I attended a concert, a meetup, a conference, etc — no luck. The tiredness and tension grows.

Now there is a case when a lot of people say: No, I can't miss this! I must be there and show my support! IG there is one case when i'm willing to break the social distancing rules, it's this one.

So more people who have accumulated the desire to be out now have a good cause to go out and demonstrate.

Re: Tear Gas Is Way More Dangerous Than Police Let On - Especially During COVID

#97

Post by xwowsersx »

anigbrowl wrote: post #93
xwowsersx wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hyperbolic in one sense, but not in another. Consider the fact that every law is backed by an implicit threat of force. For example, it's easy to say "I'm just asking for everyone to pay their fair share" when referring to taxes. But what happens when you don't pay your taxes? You can be arrested and jailed. That is underlying threat of force. Related: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly_on_violence

An implicit threat of force is very different from an explicit application of it. Feeling disgruntled (perhaps by proxy) over a small fine is not the same as being actually beaten, gassed, or jailed. You're not teaching me anything I don't already know, so what point are you attempting to make here?

They are different, but it's not clear to me that the distinction is significant in the context of OP I was addressing which is the exact point I was making. Not every difference is relevant in every context.

As for me not teaching you anything you don't already know, I can't possibly have any idea what you do or don't already know and I think it'd be more productive to leave that kind of snark out of the discussion here.

Re: Tear Gas Is Way More Dangerous Than Police Let On - Especially During COVID

#98

Post by joshribakoff »

grawprog wrote: post #47

My girlfriend worked in eye care for years, she's seen a lot of pretty bad injuries over the years one of the worst stories though was a teenage girl who was pepper sprayed in the face at close range. It basically disintegrated her eye balls. One of them was nearly completely gone and the other one had about 30% of its tissue remaining. She permanently lost her vision and had to undergo multiple surgeries and rehabil…

but its inflammatory not caustic?

Re: Tear Gas Is Way More Dangerous Than Police Let On - Especially During COVID

#99

Post by alpha_squared »

missingcolours wrote: post #57
vore wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe the fact that everyone is suddenly all for mass protests suggests that police brutality is a horrible forever unaddressed injustice that doesn't care if there's a pandemic or not?

To quote arguments that were thrown at people who wanted to do things like hold funerals for loved ones, visit dying relatives, protest against destroying the life's work of small business owners, etc: - You can do this over Zoom / online - Just because this is important to YOU does NOT give you the right to sacrifice the lives of the others who will be denied hospital care because of your selfishness - You really ca…

> You really can't wait a couple months until this LITERAL PANDEMIC is over?

Where does "a couple months" come from?

Re: Tear Gas Is Way More Dangerous Than Police Let On - Especially During COVID

#100

Post by joshribakoff »

gentleman11 wrote: post #82

If used properly, tear gas is less dangerous than at least some of the alternatives. Imagine actual riots, not peaceful protestors. The alternatives might be literally deafening sound, rubber bullets, tasers, batons, water cannons, and real guns; all of these can hurt people.

If governed properly, populations tend to not riot in the first place, so I see this as a moot point.
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