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Amazon locks down internal employee communications amid organizing efforts

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Re: Amazon locks down internal employee communications amid organizing efforts

#91

Post by dashundchen »

rochester46 wrote: post #62
retrac wrote: post #60

Some comments here really had me scratching my head. Remember, it's not just engineers, code monkeys and managers at Amazon. The majority of their employees are unskilled labour. Warehouse workers and delivery drivers. An Amazon warehouse worker in Canada makes just a little more than minimum wage. Even if it might be a nice company to work for if you're in an office, it may be a very different reality for the majori…

Canadian minimum wage is relatively high (and your statement is only true for Ontario, btw. In other parts of Canada, Amazon warehouse worker minimum pay is 150% minimum wage). When viewed through the lens of the reality that is the American workforce, things look very differently. In the US, Amazon warehouse workers make more than double the federal minimum wage. They make, at minimum, more than double the wage of a…

> In the US, Amazon warehouse workers make more than double the federal minimum wage.

And that US federal minimum wage is $7.25 an hour, $15,080 for a years worth of work. That is not a livable wage in almost any area of the country, especially the population centers the Amazon warehouses are located in.

In that sense $15 an hour is nothing to be proud of, from one of the largest and most successful companies in the country, run by one of the wealthiest people in the world.

I also would be shocked if your average construction worker or Starbucks is getting federal minimum wage, I have a feeling they are closer to $15 than you would think.

One question, do you work for Amazon? Your history consists solely of comments defending Amazon and their labor relations. If you do, it would be nice of you to disclose that before posting about your company.

Re: Amazon locks down internal employee communications amid organizing efforts

#92

Post by ngngngng »

Frost1x wrote: post #78
retrac wrote: post #60

Some comments here really had me scratching my head. Remember, it's not just engineers, code monkeys and managers at Amazon. The majority of their employees are unskilled labour. Warehouse workers and delivery drivers. An Amazon warehouse worker in Canada makes just a little more than minimum wage. Even if it might be a nice company to work for if you're in an office, it may be a very different reality for the majori…

>The majority of their employees are unskilled labour. I've never really liked "skilled" and "unskilled" label classifiers because it implies a relationship between compensation and skill. I'm aware you didn't say this but I see it far too often. I've seen a lot of fairly low compensated work that I know for a fact I can't do. We need to stop dehumanizing people with 'skilled' and 'unskilled' labor. A lot of it just…

It's useful. My first few jobs were unskilled labor. Janitorial, food service, department stores. Just getting the job done requires next to no training and certainly no prior experience.

It's difficult to push for higher wages or better working conditions when your productivity after 5 years is only 5% more than someone that started a month ago, but that's reality for unskilled work.

Re: Amazon locks down internal employee communications amid organizing efforts

#93

Post by kbenson »

Frost1x wrote: post #78
retrac wrote: post #60

Some comments here really had me scratching my head. Remember, it's not just engineers, code monkeys and managers at Amazon. The majority of their employees are unskilled labour. Warehouse workers and delivery drivers. An Amazon warehouse worker in Canada makes just a little more than minimum wage. Even if it might be a nice company to work for if you're in an office, it may be a very different reality for the majori…

>The majority of their employees are unskilled labour. I've never really liked "skilled" and "unskilled" label classifiers because it implies a relationship between compensation and skill. I'm aware you didn't say this but I see it far too often. I've seen a lot of fairly low compensated work that I know for a fact I can't do. We need to stop dehumanizing people with 'skilled' and 'unskilled' labor. A lot of it just…

I think that may be a fair critique, as long as there's a better alternative to use. If the distinction is between someone that has done extensive training or preparation for a job, to the point that it requires months or years of experience doing that job or being trained specifically for it, and to a job that essentially anyone can do and they just need a day or so of on-the-job training (if that), what's the better terminology to use?

I acknowledge there's a full spectrum between they points (e.g. painting, where anyone can do it, but professional painters have many skills developed over years to make them both more efficient and with a better outcome).

Perhaps the problem with the label is that it's being attributed incorrectly? I don't think it's saying the person is unskilled in general, just that the person is unskilled in this job. There are plenty of instances where people that are skilled in one area but unable to find work in that area get a job in another area they are unskilled in to make ends meet, and I think those jobs are generally for unskilled labor. In those cases, they likely are unskilled in the job being done.

Re: Amazon locks down internal employee communications amid organizing efforts

#94

Post by nimbius »

As a former member of the local 701 and a current member of a union, keep fighting. You start seeing this stuff when the company knows theres a good chance you'll get a union if you want one.

I once had all of my lunches turned into safety briefings with some slimeball in a suit lecturing us on the evils of unions for an hour. This prevented us from discussing unions favorably during our only time off during the day, so we decided to start an after-work club at the local pool hall. Less propaganda, more beer and real talk.

Try taking your messages out of the office. Find some place the boss doesnt control and believe me, this will help a lot. You're still going to get flyers, phone calls, letters, and even doorstep visitors if you push for a union but just remember: its all bullshit at this point. Remember why you wanted to do this, and keep a running list of issues the company has not addressed. Remember: a union gives you fair bargaining for anything else you want or need for the company to succeed and you to do your job in the future as well. Some of the handouts now might seem generous but believe me, if you back down, the company will fire absolutely everyone they can identify as an organizer that hasnt been let go up till now.

Re: Amazon locks down internal employee communications amid organizing efforts

#95

Post by nickff »

zrail wrote: post #74
rochester46 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canadian minimum wage is relatively high (and your statement is only true for Ontario, btw. In other parts of Canada, Amazon warehouse worker minimum pay is 150% minimum wage). When viewed through the lens of the reality that is the American workforce, things look very differently. In the US, Amazon warehouse workers make more than double the federal minimum wage. They make, at minimum, more than double the wage of a…

In the US do you know how many Amazon warehouse workers are employed by Amazon directly vs 3rd party contractors? Do your statements hold for those contractors?

If you disbelieve a plausible comment, there is some onus on you to disprove them. Please do your own search, and post your own citations.

These 'citation needed' comments add no value.

Re: Amazon locks down internal employee communications amid organizing efforts

#96

Post by rdiddly »

jordache wrote: post #51
redmattred wrote: post #45

Here is the page to cancel your Amazon Prime membership: https://www.amazon.com/mc/pipelines/cancellation

i don't understand this movement. If there is a purity test, to gauge your alignment with the internal company rules associated with every goods + service you rely on, then there needs to be transparency across the entire world economic landscape. Why cherry pick? Just because media decided to bring it to your attention? So you canceled Amazon Prime, everything else in your life was produced by some other entity. Do…

There's no burden of consistency that anybody needs to meet. I can boycott Amazon because I like purple and they don't have it in their logo. And then tomorrow decide to continue the boycott because it's a cloudy day and my dog has fleas.

If you want a better reason, it can be as simple as, Amazon is the 13th-biggest corporation in the world by revenue (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_companies_by_r...), and someone simply doesn't want to confer any further advantage to them or support that level of wealth concentration.

It's not cherry-picking unless you know that's the only company being avoided. In my case I've significantly cut my direct reliance on the top 12, quite unintentionally, just by

- not shopping at WalMart

- not living in China

- not owning/driving a car

- not using Apple products, and ironically

- using Amazon

Yep that's right, ordering from Amazon keeps me from being tempted to fall back on numbers 3, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10 which are all petroleum and car companies. I guess I'm going on the theory that a delivery truck making the rounds to 20 people is more efficient and less damaging than 20 people driving their own cars to various stores. On the other hand, if it's me we're talking about, I would be biking to the store. So already I'm not totally consistent, and I might be further inconsistent tomorrow and decide to boycott Amazon, especially if they don't get their act together on the labor side!

Re: Amazon locks down internal employee communications amid organizing efforts

#97

Post by Pfhreak »

londons_explore wrote: post #85
redmattred wrote: post #45

Here is the page to cancel your Amazon Prime membership: https://www.amazon.com/mc/pipelines/cancellation

If you are not happy with the way amazon treats it's warehouse workers, you should work to get the law changed, benefiting workers at big and small organisations across lots of jobs. Targeting Amazon just because it's a household brand simply makes an uneven labor playing field - sure, amazon workers might get paid better after your protest, but J J Doe and Sons Glassworkers won't change their ways. Nor will the no-n…

What if we improved the lives of hundreds of thousands of Amazon employees but didn't completely solve the problem of working conditions across the nation?

Don't let perfect be the enemy of the good. You can push for legislation AND cancel your Amazon Prime. Both are valid strategies for letting your voice be heard.

Re: Amazon locks down internal employee communications amid organizing efforts

#100

Post by rochester46 »

danaris wrote: post #79
rochester46 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canadian minimum wage is relatively high (and your statement is only true for Ontario, btw. In other parts of Canada, Amazon warehouse worker minimum pay is 150% minimum wage). When viewed through the lens of the reality that is the American workforce, things look very differently. In the US, Amazon warehouse workers make more than double the federal minimum wage. They make, at minimum, more than double the wage of a…

The pay being high is good. It's not a good enough reason to not form a union. Pay is only one piece of worker treatment, and when you're talking about hard manual labour, it's really not the most important piece—workplace health & safety is. Doesn't matter how much you were paid while you worked there if you get killed or crippled because the employer skimped on safety, either in equipment or in allowing you to take…

I fully agree with your comment. I see no reason why these workers shouldn't be unionized. In my comment, I am addressing the pay and benefits argument that is being brought up by many HNers, because your statement "The pay being high is good" is a very rare statement on this website in regards to Amazon. And I am also not wholly convinced that a lot of people aren't conflating the two (I see a lot of arguments that these workers need unionization because they are paid 'poorly').
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