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IE6countdown.com – a wolf in sheep's clothing

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Re: IE6countdown.com – a wolf in sheep's clothing

#91

Post by jiffifrazik »

coderdude wrote: post #82
alanh wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“My claim is that it's best for Microsoft to keep their users on their software, which it is.” Pardon me, but you posted 20 comments to this discussion and your only “claim” is backed up by you saying “which it is”? Then what is your point? Not to be rude, but why say anything at all? How does anyone know it’s “best to keep them on their [old] software”? If no one used IE8, would not Microsoft also be free to use new…

>Pardon me, but you posted 20 comments to this discussion and your only “claim” is backed up by you saying “which it is”? Ok then, it's not in Microsoft's best interest to keep users on IE? If you don't think the logic is plain enough to stand on its own please tell me why. How is it good for Microsoft to lose market share? That was my claim. It isn't good from their point of view for themselves to lose users. I don'…

You ignored everything parent actually meant. Nice strawman.

Not to mention that you suggest migrating XP users to IE8 instead of e.g. firefox provides a "migration path" to IE9? Which you just defended as OK for Microsoft to not provide to XP users.

Re: IE6countdown.com – a wolf in sheep's clothing

#92

Post by ryanwatkins »

wheels wrote: post #84
coderdude wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IE8 is leaps and bounds better than IE6. In IE8 you barely even need to tweak sites to get them to look right. I'd be tickled pink if IE8 was all I had to worry about. IE9 is going to be much better than IE8 -- by leaps and bounds -- but it's still in beta. At least the release candidate is out. Some people are never satisfied and always need something to complain about. I'm sure you'll find something else once IE9 i…

-Microsoft IS NOT going to suggest that people download Firefox or Chrome. I really don't understand the benefit of IE having its own rendering engine . While I can't imagine MS abandoning IE, I can't see any business reason (other than hubris) for them maintaining a worst-of-breed rendering and JS engine at great cost to themselves. (And just for the record, basically agree with you on all points.)

I guess you missed the articles here about about Microsoft's massive commitment to backward compatibility and why they do it?

From just the other day :http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2281045 and http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/APIWar.html

Ditching the current rendering engine would break a ton of apps.

Re: IE6countdown.com – a wolf in sheep's clothing

#93

Post by [deleted] »

coderdude wrote: post #77
rbanffy wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In what alternate universe is it a good idea for Microsoft to attempt to convert their users to a non-Microsoft browser (from Microsoft's stand-point)? Exactly. It's stupid for Microsoft, but everyone else would benefit from no longer having to cope with Internet Explorer. Heck. Even Microsoft would stop spending money developing their browsers and that would certainly improve their bottom line (much like abandonin…

The only people "coping" with IE are Web developers. Most users that have something greater than IE6 never even notice that poor experience nor do they know any better to begin with -- I don't even think a lot of users could tell the difference if you showed them. Try showing your grandmother why Chrome is better. I know I would have a hard time "selling it." >Heck. Even Microsoft would stop spending money developing…

[deleted]

Re: IE6countdown.com – a wolf in sheep's clothing

#95

Post by coderdude »

jiffifrazik wrote: post #90
coderdude wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're being a bit unreasonable here. IE9 relies on parts of Windows that just don't exist in XP. Windows XP is ancient by software standards. Sure, Chrome et al. work in all operating systems, but you're upset at Microsoft because they don't want to support an operating system that they want people off of already. It's their decision and I'm glad they want people to upgrade. People got mad because users didn…

You are a Microsoft astroturfer, right? (Before downvoting, people, read up on this. Microsoft does it. "coderdude"'s "website" is a vaguely Microsoftian coming-soon page...)

What? I'm almost flattered that you went through so much trouble to peg me as a Microsoft astroturfer. :)

I hate Internet Explorer. Do not get me wrong on this point. I hate it with a passion. I just know that IE8 > IE6 and that MS isn't going to link to Firefox or Chrome. If everyone was on IE8 (not even IE9) I would still be a happy camper.

Also, what part of my coming soon page is Microsoftian? Now you've got me curious. (Obviously so that I can fix that so that others can't figure out my true motives.)

Edit: Aw bummer. I was kind of flattered until I realized you created that account 15 minutes ago to troll. Your other contributions to HN:

"Shut. Up."

"You ignored everything parent actually meant. Nice strawman"

Re: IE6countdown.com – a wolf in sheep's clothing

#96

Post by wheels »

statictype wrote: post #88
wheels wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

-Microsoft IS NOT going to suggest that people download Firefox or Chrome. I really don't understand the benefit of IE having its own rendering engine . While I can't imagine MS abandoning IE, I can't see any business reason (other than hubris) for them maintaining a worst-of-breed rendering and JS engine at great cost to themselves. (And just for the record, basically agree with you on all points.)

Because a lot of companies rely on IE's rendering engine. There are a lot of sites (mostly internal but external as well) that use technologies like ActiveX which only work on IE's engine. For example, almost every site served up by an ip camera uses an activex plugin to view video.

I don't see any reason why ActiveX couldn't be bolted on to Webkit. As for backward compatibility they update their engine all of the time; perhaps quirks mode could be left as the old engine.

Re: IE6countdown.com – a wolf in sheep's clothing

#97

Post by [deleted] »

jiffifrazik wrote: post #91
coderdude wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Pardon me, but you posted 20 comments to this discussion and your only “claim” is backed up by you saying “which it is”? Ok then, it's not in Microsoft's best interest to keep users on IE? If you don't think the logic is plain enough to stand on its own please tell me why. How is it good for Microsoft to lose market share? That was my claim. It isn't good from their point of view for themselves to lose users. I don'…

You ignored everything parent actually meant. Nice strawman. Not to mention that you suggest migrating XP users to IE8 instead of e.g. firefox provides a "migration path" to IE9? Which you just defended as OK for Microsoft to not provide to XP users.

[deleted]

Re: IE6countdown.com – a wolf in sheep's clothing

#98

Post by Pahalial »

middus wrote: post #76
kenjackson wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it amazing that people seem to be more concerned about upgrading the browser than upgrading the OS. The delta between XP and Win7 is so much larger than IE8 and IE9 that having this discussion is almost embarrassing. While I get that this may make the life of the HTML5 dev easier -- its just dwarfed by the importance of getting people off of a dangerous OS. While in theory it would be nice to see MS support XP…

Thing is: I don't care if you run XP or Win7 (or Mac OS X or Ubuntu for that matter) because my software does not run on top of the OS but on top of a modern browsers. So the IE8/9 difference matters to me, the OS difference does not. Don't forget that most (or at least a lot of) people here on HN develop or run web apps.

Within the scope of this discussion, that's somewhat facetious. The main reason cited for wanting people to move off IE6 is security concerns rather than HTML5 support, and for good reason - I don't care whether people can use the latest-greatest version of gmail, I care whether they're unduly liable to become part of a botnet that can bring down gmail for everyone.

Re: IE6countdown.com – a wolf in sheep's clothing

#99

Post by mkr-hn »

jiffifrazik wrote: post #90
coderdude wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're being a bit unreasonable here. IE9 relies on parts of Windows that just don't exist in XP. Windows XP is ancient by software standards. Sure, Chrome et al. work in all operating systems, but you're upset at Microsoft because they don't want to support an operating system that they want people off of already. It's their decision and I'm glad they want people to upgrade. People got mad because users didn…

You are a Microsoft astroturfer, right? (Before downvoting, people, read up on this. Microsoft does it. "coderdude"'s "website" is a vaguely Microsoftian coming-soon page...)

This is an interesting thing for a guy who's been registered for a half hour to say.
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