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Czech Passive Radar Detecting B-2 at 150 miles (2015)

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Re: Czech Passive Radar Detecting B-2 at 150 miles (2015)

#91
post #81
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can localize down to the range of a km? Can't you just shoot down optically? A giant dark plane blotting out the stars...

An airplane at altitude doesn't blot out stars. Optical sensors are nearly useless, especially against a black aircraft at night.

Not to sound skeptical, but I've seen some stuff Ratheon was putting out at least 10-15 years ago and I think it had some pretty impressive optical sensors. Are we including the various infrared frequencies?

Re: Czech Passive Radar Detecting B-2 at 150 miles (2015)

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting inside an integrated air defense network to take out strategic targets. It's got what is believed to be a better stealth profile than the f-22 or f-35, while having payload comparable to a b-52. The MQ-9 wouldn't be able to get anywhere close to an air defense network.

OK I'm convinced. What's the 52 for, then?

Large scale strikes also, but after air defenses have been taken down, or suppressed by SEAD escorts. Keep in mind we only have 21 B-2s and they are very expensive to maintain, so it makes sense to use the B-52 whenever possible.

Re: Czech Passive Radar Detecting B-2 at 150 miles (2015)

#93
post #85
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the type of tactic that mostly only works in movies. In the real world interception is very, very hard just due to geometry. Fighters have limited fuel supplies and don't move much faster than bombers. Any no country can afford to keep a lot of them in the air or even on alert status at any given time. So the circumstances have to line up pretty well to get an interceptor in the right place at the right time.…

Well, existing stealth bombers (basically B2 at this point) are sub sonic while many fighters are super sonic. As for range - that's a good point, if your low fregvency or passive radar gives you a big bounding box, your fighters could run out of fuel before they find the stealth bomber. Or it might drop/launch its payload before you catch it.

Supersonic dash capability can help in some limited circumstances but it doesn't fundamentally change anything. Fuel consumption at those speeds is extremely high.

Re: Czech Passive Radar Detecting B-2 at 150 miles (2015)

#94
post #61
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can localize down to the range of a km? Can't you just shoot down optically? A giant dark plane blotting out the stars...

Yup, it seems to me that the optimal missile would use mid-course guidance before doing IR / visual light homing in the terminal phase.

All the stealth craft also included some IR avoidance as a matter of course, IR seeking missiles existed at the time these were designed. It's unclear if a more modern missile would still be sensitive enough to lock on and avoid chasing flares.

The techniques they used to decrease the IR visibility are pretty neat. The engine nozzles are over the wings and there are a lot of airflow tricks used to cool it down faster so from below there might not be enough plume to track from a surface launched missile coming, from below at least.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_Grumman_B-2_Spirit#In...

Re: Czech Passive Radar Detecting B-2 at 150 miles (2015)

#95
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not really enough though, which is how they lost all the F117s over Serbia in the 90s. One of which I have a framed picture of on the wall along side an original "sorry we didnt know it was invisible" flyer. Only a single F117 was shot down over Serbia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_F-117_Nighthawk#Comba...

Perhaps choose a better source than wikipedia, like people who were there. https://images.app.goo.gl/vUd8z2gkWEtKWKcJ8 even your source says they hit 2. They claim they downed 3. Americans denied they lost any for decades.

A propaganda poster knowingly conflating the words stealth and invisible, a distinction its intended audience wouldn't be able to make, to mock the enemy? I think I'll stick with the Wikipedia source.

Re: Czech Passive Radar Detecting B-2 at 150 miles (2015)

#96
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Small drones will never be banned by international treaty. There is zero chance of that.

Lasers were banned. Where does your certainty come from?

Lasers were not banned and are more heavily used now than ever before. Only blinding lasers were banned by treaty, and even with those China is semi-openly defying the ban.

Re: Czech Passive Radar Detecting B-2 at 150 miles (2015)

#97
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps choose a better source than wikipedia, like people who were there. https://images.app.goo.gl/vUd8z2gkWEtKWKcJ8 even your source says they hit 2. They claim they downed 3. Americans denied they lost any for decades.

A propaganda poster knowingly conflating the words stealth and invisible, a distinction its intended audience wouldn't be able to make, to mock the enemy? I think I'll stick with the Wikipedia source.

And even that says: Some American sources state that a second F-117A was damaged during the same campaign, allegedly on 30 April 1999;[61] the aircraft returned to base, but it supposedly never flew again.[62][63]

Point is with AA missile is that getting them "on target" is almost as effective as a hit. target has to deploy its counter measures and return home, else next time they are destroyed.

Re: Czech Passive Radar Detecting B-2 at 150 miles (2015)

#98

The B2 is relatively ancient as far as stealth tech goes. Also, most stealth aircraft are detectable on radar. The question is how big or small is the radar cross section. That’s not something this blog post digs into. Meaning, most of the time a B2 looks like a goose or a small animal. Correction on my part: The B-2 and F-35 have radar cross sections roughly the size of a marble.

It is a game of cat and mouse. Yes, B2 is relatively ancient, but so is the Tamara passive radar (it was capable to detect B2 and F-117, in the 80'ies). Just like there is a newer stealth tech for planes, there is never stealth detection tech in radars.

Israel stopped intruding into Syrian airspace with the F-35 after the deployment of the S-300 air defense system, which suggests that the most modern aircraft are stacked against even last-gen air defense.

Prior to that they had no issue going deep into the country and taking out Pantsir S1 and other Soviet-era systems

Re: Czech Passive Radar Detecting B-2 at 150 miles (2015)

#99
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps choose a better source than wikipedia, like people who were there. https://images.app.goo.gl/vUd8z2gkWEtKWKcJ8 even your source says they hit 2. They claim they downed 3. Americans denied they lost any for decades.

A propaganda poster knowingly conflating the words stealth and invisible, a distinction its intended audience wouldn't be able to make, to mock the enemy? I think I'll stick with the Wikipedia source.

I was addressing the dubious choice of sources delivered with arrogance and condescension. Couldn't care less about how many airplanes did Serbia take down.

Re: Czech Passive Radar Detecting B-2 at 150 miles (2015)

#100
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A propaganda poster knowingly conflating the words stealth and invisible, a distinction its intended audience wouldn't be able to make, to mock the enemy? I think I'll stick with the Wikipedia source.

And even that says: Some American sources state that a second F-117A was damaged during the same campaign, allegedly on 30 April 1999;[61] the aircraft returned to base, but it supposedly never flew again.[62][63] Point is with AA missile is that getting them "on target" is almost as effective as a hit. target has to deploy its counter measures and return home, else next time they are destroyed.

I was addressing the dubious choice of sources delivered with arrogance and condescension. Couldn't care less about how many airplanes did Serbia take down.
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