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Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

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Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#91

Post by deith »

jakear wrote: post #69
zchrykng wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The higher crime rates leading to higher incarceration rates is probably a bigger factor than "white racism". Edit: Making this edit to clarify what I'm trying to say, since several responses has tipped me off to how it could be read. Being black doesn't have anything to do with committing more crimes. Higher crime rates is much more a factor of economic and family status. Both of which are negatively impacted by hig…

Are you implying that a human with black skin is predetermined to commit crime at a higher rate? Or might there be some confounding variables, such as poverty, caused by hundreds/thousands of years of institutional racism?

Race is not only skin colour.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#93

Post by SlowRobotAhead »

tpmx wrote: post #29
notrekasa wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess if the government stopped putting a higher rate of black fathers in jail (they may show up).

So what's the incarceration rate for black men (or black fathers) in the typical age where they have children? (I guess ~18-35?) Seems like this stat should be publicly available. Perhaps I'm naive, but I can't imagine it to be more than 15% of this population [and that would be pretty extreme]. If that's the case, how can incarceration be considered a major cause of these fathers "failing from showing up?" (I guess…

I can’t say why users are tying to hide you post.

The incarceration rate for blacks is lower than the rate of fathers not being around for their offspring. That’s a fact.

Anyone arguing that the entire problem is “we’re just locking up all these otherwise-would-be-there fathers because it’s a fun game to lock blacks up” is ignoring the reality.

I don’t have a strong opinion on it either way, but I’ve seen much better arguments that the welfare system has allowed for the higher rate of non-nuclear families. That it doesn’t take two parents to provide so the rate of single parents increased. Seems logical enough.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#94

Post by fao_ »

datashow wrote: post #78
jenkins6g wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, but as a black man who grew up fatherless be mindful why black fathers are absent. Many times it's not by choice. There were and still are intentional systems in place to make it difficult for fathers to get jobs, stay within the prison system, and have access to quality education. I urge people commenting to ask their black friends for their insights. I came from an inner city and graduated from CMU. The two…

I just happened to read a story where an Asian was killed while two blacks trying to steal laptop from him https://abc7news.com/5811847 The story mentioned one suspect's sister saying " I have 4 kids and no daddy in their lives ". I simply can't understand this. One kid , I can understand. But four? ... Four (Add: non has daddy present)? I just have too many questions. Add: I interpreted "no daddy in their lives" as…

Ignoring the other possibilities, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_birth

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#95

Post by [deleted] »

cm2012 wrote: post #55
tpmx wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what's the incarceration rate for black men (or black fathers) in the typical age where they have children? (I guess ~18-35?) Seems like this stat should be publicly available. Perhaps I'm naive, but I can't imagine it to be more than 15% of this population [and that would be pretty extreme]. If that's the case, how can incarceration be considered a major cause of these fathers "failing from showing up?" (I guess…

Roughly 1 in 9 black men between 20-34 are currently incarcerated (11%). It's probably a much higher percentage that have been incarcerated in the last 3 years. https://images.app.goo.gl/YkRnZyqdV4M5dSC19

[deleted]

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#96

Post by scarface74 »

datashow wrote: post #78
jenkins6g wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, but as a black man who grew up fatherless be mindful why black fathers are absent. Many times it's not by choice. There were and still are intentional systems in place to make it difficult for fathers to get jobs, stay within the prison system, and have access to quality education. I urge people commenting to ask their black friends for their insights. I came from an inner city and graduated from CMU. The two…

I just happened to read a story where an Asian was killed while two blacks trying to steal laptop from him https://abc7news.com/5811847 The story mentioned one suspect's sister saying " I have 4 kids and no daddy in their lives ". I simply can't understand this. One kid , I can understand. But four? ... Four (Add: non has daddy present)? I just have too many questions. Add: I interpreted "no daddy in their lives" as…

I wonder if you would feel the same way if it was a good Middle American Catholic Family....

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#97

Post by Infinitesimus »

zchrykng wrote: post #79
baselined wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The War on Drugs is the cycle of incarceration and racism

We can argue all we want about how ineffective and/or misguided the War on Drugs has been, but that doesn't change that fact that crimes are crimes. Were some of the sentencing guidelines structured in a racist way? Maybe, I've heard people say that and don't have any evidence showing the opposite, but that is a side issue.

Check out https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/the-shocking-and-sickening-st... if you're curious.

The money quote: > "You want to know what this was really all about?” he asked with the bluntness of a man who, after public disgrace and a stretch in federal prison, had little left to protect. “The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I’m saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or blacks, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.”

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#98

Post by legopelle »

kkwak wrote: post #42
notrekasa wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess if the government stopped putting a higher rate of black fathers in jail (they may show up).

While there are injustices, what percentage of the jail time is due to actually breaking the law? Isn't it valid to put people who break the law behind bars?

I'd argue that depends on 1. laws being put I to place for strictly rational reasons, 2. arrest decisions do not depend on race and 3. punishment magnitude is equal for equal crimes.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#99

Post by rayiner »

jenkins6g wrote: post #30
maxaf wrote: post #3

Or, you know, fathers. Half of success in fatherhood comes from simply showing up. Absentee fathers contribute to the generational erosion of the family fabric that is almost impossible to undo.

Agreed, but as a black man who grew up fatherless be mindful why black fathers are absent. Many times it's not by choice. There were and still are intentional systems in place to make it difficult for fathers to get jobs, stay within the prison system, and have access to quality education. I urge people commenting to ask their black friends for their insights. I came from an inner city and graduated from CMU. The two…

That’s certainly true, but I’m not sure it’s a complete explanation. Jobs and education are less available in say Bangladesh than in US inner cities, and even among impoverished people families remain intact. Strong cultural and religious taboos on divorce and single parenthood play a big role in that. It’s worth noting that the percentage of white children raised without fathers has tripled since the 1960-1970s: https://images.app.goo.gl/SkTaWF9nyoZwXUbBA. That’s not a change that’s caused by institutional factors.

Of course, systematic racism impacts culture too. People in Bangladesh may be materially poorer and less educated than those in inner cities in the US. But they have standing within a social framework that institutional racism denies to African Americans.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#100

Post by wavefunction »

tpmx wrote: post #59
cm2012 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Roughly 1 in 9 black men between 20-34 are currently incarcerated (11%). It's probably a much higher percentage that have been incarcerated in the last 3 years. https://images.app.goo.gl/YkRnZyqdV4M5dSC19

1. That's an insanely large part of that population. 2. 11% still doesn't go a long way in explaining the "fatherless issue", although we probably need firm numbers on that too.

11% may even seem like a small number until you consider that not all the black men who have been incarcerated at least once in their life are currently incarcerated. 25% of black and hispanic men will face incarceration at least once in their life[0]. The incarceration is also skewed towards younger men who are one supposes potentially more likely to miss out on the formative years of their children's lives. It's also difficult for a strong family to develop in this situation imo. Life is about getting a good start and keeping that momentum going as steadily and predictably as possible.

[0]https://bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/Llgsfp.pdf

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