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Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

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Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#91
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love whenever crows become a topic online because people have all these amazing crow stories that they never have another reason to share. How's about we allow a little local flavor while people tell their stories?

Local flavour doesn't have to include stereotypes.

Local flavour is all about stereotypes. It's all about the common characteristics, seen time and again, in a locality and its inhabitants.

Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>will hold a grudge... you's swear they were part Irish There's no need for this.

It was a passing comment, the sun will still rise tomorrow... Meanwhile: Why Irish grudges are passed on - a long tradition of never forgetting https://www.irishcentral.com/opinion/cahirodoherty/why-irish...

Irish central is for America's. Pretty much 100% made up plastic paddy crap.

I am Irish and live in Ireland.

Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#93
post #68

I am wondering where sulphur-crested cockatoo are on the scale. Before seeing some in freedom up close in Australia, I never realized they actually could grab objects with their claws like they are hands and put them in their mouth. They seemed very smart to me. I wonder if they lose to crow only because they are less prevalent around most labs in the world...

Parrots get mentioned all the time in animal intelligence research. Normally the experiments take different forms: you keep one parrot in captivity and teach it to speak, while you observe the behaviour of groups of crows in the wild.

Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Birds have an inheren limit on head weight, which limits their brain size. They do manage to use what they have quite well (parrots are also remarkable in that regard), but the limit is there. Ultimately intelligence is a tough nut to crack for such a stupid and limited thing as evolution: some have a big brain but no hands, some have hands but cannot have a big brain because space is used for something else…

> It's a miracle that a species like ours could combine all the necessary, quite fragile, ingredients to develop intelligence. The Anthropic Principle says this combination must have happened with probability 1, otherwise there would be noone to observe it not happening.

Nope, the anthropic principle does not imply that probability is 1. It's not even really a principle, just a post-factum observation. There may have been no one on Earth to write this stuff on a smartphone, ever. There might have even been no life in our Universe, ever. We shouldn't take these things for granted.

Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#95

This article focuses mostly on problem solving, planning, and tool use as the primary hallmarks of intelligence. But what problem does writing a poem solve? Do you have to be intelligent to write a great poem? What about the intelligence need to compose a great whale song[1]? Or paint a great painting? These are things not measured on intelligence tests and that don't fit well in to scientific experiments because the…

>This article focuses mostly on problem solving, planning, and tool use as the primary hallmarks of intelligence. But what problem does writing a poem solve?

The problem of expressing yourself to a specific, deeper, degree than with mere talk? And/or (in olde times, when poems where meant to be accompanied by music/oration) creating something people can be entertained with and sing/dance too.

>Do you have to be intelligent to write a great poem?

Yes. Mind you, it doesn't mean it's technical intelligence, the kind that solves math problems etc. It's intelligence with words, wordplay, expression, feelings, ways of seeing, etc.

Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#96
It's very difficult to tell which is the smartest animal - or whether an animal is intelligent or not - because intelligence is a broad concept and there are many kinds of intelligence.

If you're interested in this topic a good book is "Are We Smart Enough to Know How Smart Animals Are?", by Frans de Waal.

Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#97
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Early humans didn't have poetry. [Citation Needed]

OK so speech has begun 100,000 years ago (perhaps earlier). My point stands: Would humans without poetry not be considered intelligent? Hardly.

>My point stands: Would humans without poetry not be considered intelligent? Hardly.

They would be considered less intelligent than humans that have developed speech, and later poetry and other refined forms of expression.

The same way humans that painted their caves are considered more intelligent than the humanoids that proceeded them, that weren't as able to express themselves.

Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#99
This is a great Ted talk about crows and how their intelligence differs from that of other animals.

Lots of other comments talking about crows using cars to crack nuts. In this talk, he traces the behaviour to a driving school on the or skirts of Tokyo. The behaviour then spread across Tokyo.

https://www.ted.com/talks/joshua_klein_a_thought_experiment_...

Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#100
post #77
post #20

We have crows and jackrabbits in our neighborhood. You drive down the road toward a bunch (I think they prefer the term "murder") of crows having a meeting in the middle of the road. They'll eventually start nonchalantly strolling to the side at a calm, measured pace perfectly timed to just barely get out of the way as you pass and stroll back again, no feathers ruffled. Jackrabbits will be sitting safely in the gras…

To be fair though, birds have had to adapt long ago to evaluating the movement of very fast moving objects, while rabbits and most mammals have not really had to cope with fast speeds until humans invented cars just a century ago.

But to be fairer (to crows), I've witnessed crows just cross the yellow painted lines in a road to get to safety. They've adapted to our traffic rules.
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