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Before buying Ring, WEMO or Roku, consider privacy issues

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Re: Before buying Ring, WEMO or Roku, consider privacy issues

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do I have the freedom not to be filmed by your doorbell and have it sent to the police without even your permission to be processed and stored for however long they want and possibly used against me at a later date for something that isn't even a crime now?

Sure. Just stay off my porch.

s/my porch/the public roadway that my camera is recording 24x7/

Re: Before buying Ring, WEMO or Roku, consider privacy issues

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pi-hole is great, but it's not going to help if the designed purpose of the device is to send data to external servers, or if the device bypasses the network's DNS server, especially with the advent of DoH.

The right way to do this is set up a VLAN that can't get out to the Internet and is segregated from your own devices except via inbound connections from a Firewall. I've done this with cheap Chinese IP Cams and much other IOT garbage that has either been reverse engineered and/or presents some form of local network access.

Sounds great -- Any recommended how-to guides for those of us new to VLANs?

Re: Before buying Ring, WEMO or Roku, consider privacy issues

#93
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fear mongering? Property crime is up in many cities. That’s real. The fear mongering is from those attacking Internet-connected cameras and creating a fake outrage when people are just exercising their constitutional rights to record video and exchange information. The entire notion that voluntary disclosure of information will lead to a dystopia is not just the slippery slope fallacy but also ACTUAL fear mongering i…

I don't know how to say this any nicer than this: I'm sorry you live in such fear. It isn’t normal and you should figure out why and work to fix it. I live in one of the most densely populated areas of the country. I've been here for a decade. Not only have I never seen so much as mere property crime (and it is "mere"), I don't have any reason to fear it. T the contrary--I have a greater reason to fear the unregulate…

You are accusing me of living in fear and yet you’re painting a picture of a “panopticon” that is itself fear based and hypothetical, whereas my fear has real crimes and statistics behind it. We retain police forces because deterring crime and catching criminals is important. Making the job of the police easier helps society get better, not worse.

Your position seems to be that we should be ok with criminals being free and out at large, potentially victimizing others too. Have you ever been the victim of a crime? Like an assault or burglary? If someone gets raped do you tell them “it isn’t normal to be fearful and you should work on fixing that?” This seems like textbook victim-shaming to me. Helping solve crime is not the same as a dystopia.

Re: Before buying Ring, WEMO or Roku, consider privacy issues

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does skin color have to with this? That seems like reckless alarmism. Humans are in the loop to validate facial recognition matches. It’s a first pass filter.

Ever seen africian or latino men on a grainy camera? It kinda does matter.

Ring cameras aren’t grainy. These are new, 1080p cameras, many with night vision capability. And again, if a human is in the loop then you are talking about a problem that is orthogonal to cameras - would a police officer jump to conclusions based on a poor, grainy match on non-IoT cameras or on photographs? Maybe on rare occasion, but the vast majority of the time, they wouldn’t.

Re: Before buying Ring, WEMO or Roku, consider privacy issues

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i mean, is it any different than having any other conversation that potentially involves interpersonal conflict? if it's important to you and you're willing to burn social capital on it, just politely ask that he not use it when [your boundaries here]. if you come to an impasse, then there's not much to be done other than part ways. i'd imagine this is similar to any other incompatible roommate situations, e.g. someo…

I think the idea is that, rather than fight hundreds of small battles like this every day, we should collectively agree (through democratic political means) what's acceptable without explicit permission.

Could using a device like that violate some U.S. states' two-party-consent recording laws [0]?

If so, then perhaps the courts are the best remedy.

[0] https://recordinglaw.com/party-two-party-consent-states/

Re: Before buying Ring, WEMO or Roku, consider privacy issues

#96
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should his desire to not have voice assistants in the house trump his roommate's desire to utilize the technology they paid for and want to use? These are both subjective opinions and neither one is better than the other. However I do agree that 3pt14159 should talk to his roommate about it if it bugs him so that they can come to an understanding.

> Why should his desire to not have voice assistants in the house trump his roommate's desire to utilize the technology ... His roommate didn't have the courtesy to even ask about it up front. :( That being said, his roommate may just have not thought about it. Only way to find out is by starting the discussion and seeing how it goes.

To clarify:

> Why should his desire to not have voice assistants in the house trump his roommate's desire to utilize the technology they paid for and want to use?

One thing is about security and privacy (important), while the other is about convenience (trivial).

That the roommate didn't even consider the security and privacy of other people is Not Ok. It seems fairly common in this early stage of voice assistants, so having a discussion about it may resolve things.

Re: Before buying Ring, WEMO or Roku, consider privacy issues

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. Just stay off my porch.

s/my porch/the public roadway that my camera is recording 24x7/

(Shrug) If Google can film public areas, then so can I.

See, that's kind of the whole idea behind public areas. You aren't entitled to any expectation of privacy there. That's why they're called public areas, and not private areas.

The distinction is remarkably easy to comprehend.

Re: Before buying Ring, WEMO or Roku, consider privacy issues

#98
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how to say this any nicer than this: I'm sorry you live in such fear. It isn’t normal and you should figure out why and work to fix it. I live in one of the most densely populated areas of the country. I've been here for a decade. Not only have I never seen so much as mere property crime (and it is "mere"), I don't have any reason to fear it. T the contrary--I have a greater reason to fear the unregulate…

You are accusing me of living in fear and yet you’re painting a picture of a “panopticon” that is itself fear based and hypothetical, whereas my fear has real crimes and statistics behind it. We retain police forces because deterring crime and catching criminals is important. Making the job of the police easier helps society get better, not worse. Your position seems to be that we should be ok with criminals being fr…

See, the thing is--I'm reasonable. If you want to run your own security system, stored locally, and provide that data to and only to the police when and only when a crime occurs? Fine. We can deal with that as a society and as communities. But the thing is, even that is horseshit. It's not "helping solve crime". Even with a photo ID, the police in most jurisdictions are not going to go out of their way to do anything about property crime. (Nor, really, should they, unless somebody's actually harmed.)

Privately managed, secure, local and unshared recordings are fine. Ring and other scumshit "security" peddlers? It's a gimmick for data-slurping corporate-interest assholes to get additional on-the-ground data about people for whom there was no attempt to acquire permission, let alone any moral right to do it. That's why these things exist. Don't fall for the fucking okeydoke.

Re: Before buying Ring, WEMO or Roku, consider privacy issues

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. Just stay off my porch.

And don’t walk by my house? For that matter, don’t bother visiting me?

If you're walking by my house, you're in public, and you have no expectation of privacy. (Actually, that's not true -- my house isn't visible from the street, so if you're on my cameras, you're definitely on my property.)

If you're visiting me, you're on my property, ditto.

Any attempts to "fix" this will only make the world worse in the end. The people you empower to enforce your opinions about privacy in (semi-)public places will begin by exempting themselves from whatever well-intentioned rules you have in mind.

Re: Before buying Ring, WEMO or Roku, consider privacy issues

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

s/my porch/the public roadway that my camera is recording 24x7/

(Shrug) If Google can film public areas, then so can I. See, that's kind of the whole idea behind public areas. You aren't entitled to any expectation of privacy there. That's why they're called public areas, and not private areas. The distinction is remarkably easy to comprehend.

The distinction between could could and should? Or the distinction between private and public? Because all are debated on a regular basis, vary by jurisdiction/country, and are not black and white. Take the issues surrounding filming police officers in public is an example.
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