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Neural correlates of the DMT experience assessed with multivariate EEG

nature.com

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Re: Neural correlates of the DMT experience assessed with multivariate EEG

#91

Post by peterwwillis »

mettamage wrote: post #87
andrew_ wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's very meta. And an excellent philosophical question!

Assuming you can remember the old you, I think in most cases it's fair to say that it's the new you that has enough knowledge of the old you. It's just like normal learning really, if you learn something, you become a new you that has knowledge of the old you and the new you might then say "what I learned right now was better." I know, I'm not the best at philosophy.

If a drug significantly alters your brain to the point that you no longer think the way you did before, how do you know you changed for the better? Maybe the old you, the you that existed before you took the drug, would say this is not better. Maybe the new you only thinks you are now changed for the better. Maybe you didn't change at all! After all, do you even have a way to measure what has changed, and how much better or not-better you've gotten? Do you just feel better? Much like an old dinged-up ball bearing with new grease, it may squeak less, but is the ball actually any different than it was before? And in the context of how we feel about ourselves, which really matters? Is our perception of ourselves more important than reality? If so, the statement "It has changed me for the better" is really just saying "I feel better than before".

Another way to look at the question "how do you know if the change made you 'better'": Say you took a drug, and suddenly you changed from being a liberal, to being a Nazi. (This happens a lot, not with drugs, but with events; an event happens, and suddenly someone turns from very liberal, to very far-right conservative) How do you know if the change has made you better? The new you is perfectly fine with Nazi-hood, and thinks you are better. But the old you would be pretty sure that the new you is the exact opposite of better. How can one tell if a change has made them better? Which version should we listen to? How do we define better, and how do we measure it?

Re: Neural correlates of the DMT experience assessed with multivariate EEG

#92

Post by rzzzt »

mapcars wrote: post #80
rzzzt wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One often mentioned trick is to look for stuff to read if you think you are in a dream - street signs and other text tend not to make a lot of sense (the brain falls behind GPT2 in that regard).

That's not exactly like this, this and other "tricks" are described in great details in Stephen LaBerge's books on Lucid Dreaming

What part did I miss out on for this particular technique?

Re: Neural correlates of the DMT experience assessed with multivariate EEG

#93

Post by exabyte »

undefined3840 wrote: post #22

I really want to try DMT but terrified to do that without professional help nearby e.g. on an Ayahuasca retreat. I have experienced both LSD and shrooms but have heard DMT is on another level.

You absolutely want to find an experienced group in order to guide you. Never do it while taking prescription meds like anti-depressants, opioids or others. Ayahuasca is very different from taking straight DMT. I haven't done the latter, but the experiences I have heard differ significantly in certain respects. You should never do Ayahuasca recreationally in the spur of the moment.

All that being said, there are experienced groups, in Holland for example, that lead safe group Ayahuasca ceremonies, such as a long weekend with 2 ceremonies. Peru is an option but it's much more of a raw experience and less gentle to a western mindset.

Re: Neural correlates of the DMT experience assessed with multivariate EEG

#94

Post by thrax »

zwieback wrote: post #37
rollerboi wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed that it's interesting nonetheless. I've been "joking" with my friends that I want to take a trip to Costa Rica to do Ayahuasca with them. The "story" of how Ayahuasca came to be is quite fascinating: Ayahuasca, the drink, is actually comprised of two plant-based ingredients. One of the ingredients supplies the "DMT" portion, but the effects would last a very short time (something like 20 seconds to a couple mi…

I heard there's a lot of barfing involved - made it seem kind of unappealing.

Barf the rainbow.

Re: Neural correlates of the DMT experience assessed with multivariate EEG

#95

Post by galaxyLogic »

lazyguy2 wrote: post #75
EL_Loco wrote: post #69

I'm brazilian, and lived a big part of my life in a city where there were two religious groups who did ayahuasca. In my 20's, I had quite a lot of friends who tried it, with some doing it quite frequently and a few even joining the groups as full members. The experience I had with knowing them before and after ayahuasca not too different than with other drugs/hallucinogens: my friends related life-changing events, co…

Many people in the USA observed the same thing. That's what the term 'yuppie' implied for a lot of people. All these people from the late 1960's and 1970's that spoke about dropping out or how awesome it would be join a short lived commune and so on and so forth only to became intensely materialistic and image obsessed in their 30's. Which then spoke to the idea that a lot of the 'ultra spiritual' stuff that hippie m…

I think (have no proof) that many people who identified as hippies got later involved with non-hallucinogenic drugs like cocaine and that made them forget about spirituality and they became yuppies.

The thing about spiritual awakening I believe is you have to do something with it, nurture it, or it fades away.

Or maybe many of the hippies got married and got children and that way became more materialistic. The spiritual way is the way of the monk. Or nun. Maybe

Re: Neural correlates of the DMT experience assessed with multivariate EEG

#96

Post by ThJ »

nyolfen wrote: post #77
pavas wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like mania. Be careful.

my thought as well, particularly the bit about following amphetamine use and the death of their mother, assuming it wasn't figurative or an arbitrary example. as someone who has experienced mania it reminded me strongly of the way i've felt in the midst of it -- the sense of mastery, the paranoia, and feeling like i had some kind of conceptual or philosophical breakthrough.

Oh, I read psychology. Actually, it was mania at one point, but, uh, I... stopped it? And then interesting things began happening. My ability to improvise on the piano improved. My appreciation of classical music grew. The paranoia was replaced by the understanding that people usually aren’t out to get me. It wasn’t so much mania as it was my social skills turning on for the first time and it was a bit intense. I’m talking to people as I’m going through this and the feedback was concern at first, followed by keen interest in what I was saying, in the sense that people now want to talk to me more often, women actually pay attention to me and laugh at my jokes. I think if this is mania, it’s controlled mania in a way? I’m able to bring myself up and down and I stop if it goes too high. There are a couple of friends of mine who have had similar experiences and they’re smart people too, and nobody locked them up for it. I think there are people out there who can control their mind states like this and it’s a rather powerful tool. I’m positive about it. I live, think and feel. I have good days and bad days. Also, I’ve been stepping the ADHD meds down not up, and even late at night when they’re supposed to have worn off, I can still get into that state.

I guess in a way if I didn’t know breathing and relaxation techniques and didn’t know much about psych stuff, I’d be very confused and would possibly lose it, but since I know these things, and I know science, it’s a thing I can control. I’m not alone in it and I’m sharing these things with friends and while some of them don’t get it, some of them do totally get it.

I think what you should know about my story is that I was a ball of stress and fear before this happened. All my life, actually. The notion that people go through breakdowns at stages of self development isn’t exactly unheard of.

The scary thing, of course, is that it DOES break people down completely at times. It’s too much for them to handle... but when it isn’t too much to handle and you just grow from it? I’d call that self development.

Re: Neural correlates of the DMT experience assessed with multivariate EEG

#97

Post by thrax »

saganus wrote: post #67
riversflow wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me: LSD is like the walls of reality melting before your own eyes. Mushrooms is like you mind melted with a wild animal. DMT is like your consciousness melts with your imagination.

That's an interesting take. I wonder if other people would agree with that description, but it sounds almost palpable.

I agree w the above r.e. lsd/shrooms .. never done dmt tho.. not particularly interested. I've done salvia which I've been td is like a super light version of dmt, and was not a big fan.. thought at least salvia is only about 15 minutes :D lots of ominous dread.

Re: Neural correlates of the DMT experience assessed with multivariate EEG

#98

Post by mike_hock »

hcarvalhoalves wrote: post #52
LinuxBender wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it true that multiple people tripping on it at the same time, in different rooms, see the same things, events and even people in their trip? I've never tried any psychedelics, but if there were any truth to what I have heard, it would be a fascinating topic to study while monitoring brainwave activity.

It could be suggestion / false memory. Once one participant tries to explain their experience in more concrete terms, the others start to fit the description into their own experience, and since we have similar prior experiences, they "see" the same things. Try this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5sk504Yc94

Poor presentation.

I didn't have "sleep." So now what?

"So we're gonna do a little experiment, memorize these words, then write them down, now I'm gonna read ... oh will you look at the time, it's been almost 2 minutes, that is we're almost at the end of your attention span, so here's the conclusion, bye."

He could have at least read the (supposed) entire list, then tell us which ones weren't actually on the original list, or ask us which ones weren't. Or something.

Re: Neural correlates of the DMT experience assessed with multivariate EEG

#99

Post by kylek »

zwieback wrote: post #37
rollerboi wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed that it's interesting nonetheless. I've been "joking" with my friends that I want to take a trip to Costa Rica to do Ayahuasca with them. The "story" of how Ayahuasca came to be is quite fascinating: Ayahuasca, the drink, is actually comprised of two plant-based ingredients. One of the ingredients supplies the "DMT" portion, but the effects would last a very short time (something like 20 seconds to a couple mi…

I heard there's a lot of barfing involved - made it seem kind of unappealing.

Barfing is literally the point of ayahuasca. It's even called "la purga" by some.

Re: Neural correlates of the DMT experience assessed with multivariate EEG

#100

Post by monocasa »

_arvin wrote: post #49
FailMore wrote: post #10

> Decreased alpha power is a particularly consistent finding in neuroimaging research with psychedelics7,8,11. Alpha is the most prominent rhythm of the resting-brain, particularly in humans, and particularly in adulthood30. Alpha has been linked with high-level psychological functioning31,32, top-down predictive processing18,33 and related feedback connectivity34 - all of which have been found to be disrupted under…

One of the worst side effects of cannabis :[ I miss dreaming and REM sleep. feelsbadman

Huh, my most vivid dreams are when I go to sleep on edibles.
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