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Neural correlates of the DMT experience assessed with multivariate EEG

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Re: Neural correlates of the DMT experience assessed with multivariate EEG

#51

Post by davebryand »

instakill wrote: post #18

Has anyone ever tripped on Ayahuasca/DMT and afterwards embraced the thought that everything they experienced was simply a hallucination or dream that they cannot actually integrate back into their regular, sober, waking life?

The experience is easy to try but impossible to describe. You're often left with the impression that the dimension you enter (or however you describe what happens during a visit to the "DMT Realms") is more real than this life. You feel distinctly like this awake state IS the hallucination.

This experience can be very challenging or disillusioning for many people. Integration of these experiences is a super important part of the process of using psychedelics to systematically level up your consciousness. That said, once you've used them to a level where you have moved past shadow work and into more realization work, these substances seem almost miraculous.

My favorite quote on this is by Terence McKenna: "People say, 'is there risk, to DMT? It sounds so intense. Is it dangerous?' The answer is yes, it's tremendously dangerous. The danger is the possibility of death by astonishment."

Re: Neural correlates of the DMT experience assessed with multivariate EEG

#52

Post by hcarvalhoalves »

LinuxBender wrote: post #36
noodle_face_ wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've tried explaining this to people who've never tried psychedelics. It is unlike any other substance I've ever tried (a lot of them, FWIW) in that it leaves you with lasting impressions. Some things I gleaned tripping have stuck with me to this day. It has changed me for the better.

Is it true that multiple people tripping on it at the same time, in different rooms, see the same things, events and even people in their trip? I've never tried any psychedelics, but if there were any truth to what I have heard, it would be a fascinating topic to study while monitoring brainwave activity.

It could be suggestion / false memory. Once one participant tries to explain their experience in more concrete terms, the others start to fit the description into their own experience, and since we have similar prior experiences, they "see" the same things.

Try this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5sk504Yc94

Re: Neural correlates of the DMT experience assessed with multivariate EEG

#53

Post by BigChiefSmokem »

_arvin wrote: post #49
FailMore wrote: post #10

> Decreased alpha power is a particularly consistent finding in neuroimaging research with psychedelics7,8,11. Alpha is the most prominent rhythm of the resting-brain, particularly in humans, and particularly in adulthood30. Alpha has been linked with high-level psychological functioning31,32, top-down predictive processing18,33 and related feedback connectivity34 - all of which have been found to be disrupted under…

One of the worst side effects of cannabis :[ I miss dreaming and REM sleep. feelsbadman

You still dream while on cannabis, I just don’t think you are able to record any of it to main memory. Actually from what I understand it we all dream a lot (with or without cannabis) we just can’t remember most of it.

Re: Neural correlates of the DMT experience assessed with multivariate EEG

#54

Post by thrax »

vokep wrote: post #34
shawnz wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contrary to popular opinion I haven't found DMT to be that much different than any other psychedelic drug when comparing equivalent doses. Sure it's true that while high on the drug it creates experiences that feel real, but that's true of dreaming too, isn't it? It's not obvious that it wasn't real until it's over. And similarly I have had the same feeling from high doses of "plain old" psychedelics.

The difference is rarely do people wake from a dream and feel they ought to change their life in major ways as a result. Curious what "high" doses of "plain old psychedelics" might be? I've never gone further than 200ug LSD.

Check out erowid if you want some high dosage lsd stories. In the early 90s I encountered some "mop up" doses that were claimed to be in the 3000 mic range. I tried them twice.. first time during the Rodney king riots in SF (took half a mopup, started out really fun then devolved into a nightmare. Hid in the garden of a high end restaurant, literally inside a bush, watching the mayhem unfold on market Street.. Second time was while backpacking in pt Reyes and that was the best, most transformative drug experience I've ever had. I talked to a mushroom and learned a lot about my self and humanities relationship to nature.. But, at peak, I was completely disassociated. Basically blind/deaf to external reality for about 3-4 hours. I was with 3 other people.. and I think we were just rolling around in a meadow the whole time. Eventually we somehow ended up at the ocean, and the sunset brought us all to tears. In the 90s, the most commonly available doses here on the street were about 150 mics, and cost around 2 to 6 bucks. And the comedown was ugly. I've been told that cheap/old lsd, degrades into strychnine.. which is why the comedown is so harsh. On the high dose ones I did, the comedown was completely different. Nowadays I stick to the occasional couple of shrooms or a hit of molly once or twice a year. I think today I would have too much emotional baggage and ties to my consentual shared hallucination with humanity to do psychs that powerful again.

Re: Neural correlates of the DMT experience assessed with multivariate EEG

#55

Post by rzzzt »

dana321 wrote: post #50

I've had my own dreams while awake, the key is to stay aware while you are going to sleep.. Everyone knows the state between sleeping and awake, its great. But to go to sleep while still conscious, is like advanced meditation. I've had similar experiences during meditation. The world around you merges into a dream-like state, but it all seems to feel more real than the world we usually experience while awake. Dreams…

One often mentioned trick is to look for stuff to read if you think you are in a dream - street signs and other text tend not to make a lot of sense (the brain falls behind GPT2 in that regard).

Re: Neural correlates of the DMT experience assessed with multivariate EEG

#56

Post by ThJ »

phaedrus wrote: post #43
FailMore wrote: post #10

> Decreased alpha power is a particularly consistent finding in neuroimaging research with psychedelics7,8,11. Alpha is the most prominent rhythm of the resting-brain, particularly in humans, and particularly in adulthood30. Alpha has been linked with high-level psychological functioning31,32, top-down predictive processing18,33 and related feedback connectivity34 - all of which have been found to be disrupted under…

Interesting! When you say executive functions, could ADHD be linked in a way to this? When I "zone out" it feels like REM dreaming while awake.

Oh, um, that’s interesting. I have found I can make myself dream while awake in a way... I use relaxation techniques on myself all day and it’s actually a bit frightening what you can make your own brain do...

What happened to me is I became more openminded, more fluent in my writing, more daring in my choices, and actually also more socially aware...

I can only compare it to eating the forbidden fruit of the garden of Eden, or to Buddhas awakening. I have such control over my own state of mind that I can calm myself down to such a degree that it almost feels like I smoked a joint, or work myself up into rage or excitement. It’s like playing yourself like a musical instrument as you constantly focus on your breathing.

The other day I had the bizarre experience of sustaining a sexual climax for what must’ve been 20 minutes because I had put myself in such an extremely relaxed state that I could just let it “hang” there forever.

This state of mind seems to be what artists, writers, lawyers and other people who just apply creative thinking in their work are in most of the time, as well as astronauts and professional athletes. The calmness makes you extremely fast and precise.

Interestingly, I began to learn this after taking ADHD meds, but now in need less meds than before. Turns out my ADHD was just a need to stay in a very calm and playful state most of the time. The funny thing is that this has caused me to climb up on Maslow’s pyramid of needs.

I think what ADHD meds often do is help you function but also push you to a breakdown and then your brain starts testing other modes of operation that won’t cause another breakdown. Facing adversity, such as the death of your mother, also seems to be a common trigger for it...

Why the comparison to the forbidden fruit? Because every thought I have now is a double edged sword. Whenever I think something I instantly see the flip side. When I look at other people, I read their body language like a book. Also, self talk has become frighteningly effective.

I wish I had a scientific explanation for it. The closest I can think of is something called psychosynthesis, together with the theories of Jung. I feel like what I’ve done is let the id and ego swap places... or perhaps the id and the superego. Feels like I’m damned near egoless. It’s almost impossible to say hurtful remarks to me.

On the way here, I had something that can best be described as a breakdown followed by a feeling of all encompassing love. A gentle voice told me it loved me and wanted me to be happy and I was overwhelmed with emotion.

I also went slightly paranoid at one point and was convinced everyone was out to get me. I trusted everything my intuition told me, every suspicion and gut feeling felt like reality.

I got over that, but I rely far more on gut feeling now than I ever did before and it makes me very fluent in my writing and very unafraid to ask questions, etc.

It’s been really bizarre.

Re: Neural correlates of the DMT experience assessed with multivariate EEG

#58

Post by teh_infallible »

LinuxBender wrote: post #36
noodle_face_ wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've tried explaining this to people who've never tried psychedelics. It is unlike any other substance I've ever tried (a lot of them, FWIW) in that it leaves you with lasting impressions. Some things I gleaned tripping have stuck with me to this day. It has changed me for the better.

Is it true that multiple people tripping on it at the same time, in different rooms, see the same things, events and even people in their trip? I've never tried any psychedelics, but if there were any truth to what I have heard, it would be a fascinating topic to study while monitoring brainwave activity.

Yes. This absolutely happens. What was strange for me was looking at clouds while tripping and pointing out all the things I saw in the clouds. My companion saw all the same things. There’s no way a sober person would have seen any of it.

Re: Neural correlates of the DMT experience assessed with multivariate EEG

#59

Post by dkersten »

vokep wrote: post #34
shawnz wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contrary to popular opinion I haven't found DMT to be that much different than any other psychedelic drug when comparing equivalent doses. Sure it's true that while high on the drug it creates experiences that feel real, but that's true of dreaming too, isn't it? It's not obvious that it wasn't real until it's over. And similarly I have had the same feeling from high doses of "plain old" psychedelics.

The difference is rarely do people wake from a dream and feel they ought to change their life in major ways as a result. Curious what "high" doses of "plain old psychedelics" might be? I've never gone further than 200ug LSD.

> The difference is rarely do people wake from a dream and feel they ought to change their life in major ways as a result.

I dunno about a major way, but I've had dreams which took days to properly snap back after, because the experiences felt so real that I felt an emptiness similar to bereavement for the fictional people that I dreamed about. That felt just as real to me as my experiences on DMT. I've also had Ketamine experiences that were similarly profound and have stuck with me since. Once I had a K trip which felt like I was outside of time, watching the cogs of the universe tick past instant by instant for all eternity. That experience snapped me out of a pretty depressive period of my life.

People of course have profound meaningful experiences on DMT, but I don't think its exclusive to it and any strong hallucinogen or dissociative can, in my opinion, have similarly strong impacts for some people.

Re: Neural correlates of the DMT experience assessed with multivariate EEG

#60

Post by EL_Loco »

alexanderthe- wrote: post #25
instakill wrote: post #18

Has anyone ever tripped on Ayahuasca/DMT and afterwards embraced the thought that everything they experienced was simply a hallucination or dream that they cannot actually integrate back into their regular, sober, waking life?

Who's to say that waking consciousness isn't just a hallucination or dream that can't be integrated into their actual, transcendent, spiritual life?

According to you, I'm guessing nobody; but that's not what he was asking.
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