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US takes 'richest nation on earth' crown from Switzerland

thelocal.ch

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Re: US takes 'richest nation on earth' crown from Switzerland

#91
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if consumption capacity was equal in Europe, that consumption would shift to something else, such as food and entertainment. People in New York City don’t consume less because they don’t own a car—they spend more money eating out, etc. And Europeans are hardly ascetics. It’s fair to assume that in both places, if people had more means to consume they would.

> "But if consumption capacity was equal in Europe, that consumption would shift to something else, such as food and entertainment." Yes. But my point is that not all consumption can be considered equal in terms of the wellbeing and quality of life that it provides. For example, if I was spending $5000 per year on car payments and fuel for my commute to work, that's a lot of 'consumption'. But it isn't something that…

Americans could live in a city where they walk, cycle, or ride a tram to work. For the most part, they don’t want to. They used to have such cities, but they ripped up the tram lines and put in freeways. (Part of that is because most of the US is quite unpleasant to walk or cycle in from a weather point of view. The average high in Amsterdam, a famous cycling city, tops out at 72 degrees. In Atlanta, it’s 80+ from May through September.)

Re: US takes 'richest nation on earth' crown from Switzerland

#92
post #36
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you still have plenty of homesless and destitute. Pretty sad that you can't look after the most vunerable.

I saw a ton of people sleeping on mattresses and blankets in German train stations last time I went. Were they just enjoying their freedom from the pressures of society? Maybe we should look at this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homeless_... So what are you talking about exactly?

wtf are you talking about?

This literally does not happen in normal operation (because train stations security or police aided by social workers will direct people to homeless shelters, or make them leave if they refuse homeless shelters), and only happened a few times during the height of the refugee crisis in the big cities with new arrivals coming in at a rate where the refugee and homeless shelters in those major arrival cities were overloaded and bureaucracy was too slow to process and re-distribute these arrivals quick enough to avoid some camping in train stations.

The wikipedia article explicitly states:

> This is a list of countries (not all 195) by the homeless population present on any given night. Different countries often use different definitions of homelessness, making direct comparisons of numbers complicated.[3]

For Germany it further states: >*Includes around 350000 refugees in temporary housing or awaiting asylum.

Temporary housing might be shit, but it's still better than living in a cardboard box on skid row. Unless your government provided temporary housing is a literal cage, of course, but we don't have those here.

In Germany "homeless" includes all people who do not have a permanent residence, i.e. people living on the streets but also people who e.g. temporarily live with relatives or friends, e.g. because they have a hard time finding an affordable place in the overcrowded big cities.

PS: I was "homeless" for about a year in Germany. I was looking for a new place after uni, couldn't find one due to overcrowding in the city I was looking in, and stayed in my parents' house during that time, just like I did in my youth. I had a better life incl more privacy there than I previously had with some roommate arrangements. But I was technically homeless under the definition they use for the stats.

Re: US takes 'richest nation on earth' crown from Switzerland

#93
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and affordable highspeed internet.

France has much slower internet on average than the US: https://www.akamai.com/de/de/multimedia/documents/state-of-t... It’s almost as if it’s part of a pattern, where the top 75% in the US do better than France, while the stronger French safety net is better for the bottom 25%.

OP mentioned affordable not top speed.

Fiber optical connexion cost +- 30 euros and "unlimitted" 4G LTE mobile data plan cost +- 20 euros(including roaming). It's a lot more affordable than what AT&T or Comcast offer...

Re: US takes 'richest nation on earth' crown from Switzerland

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The post I am replying to claims that the "20% poorest" in the US have it better than middle-class Europeans which is such a ludicrous claim as to require posts like mine to provide the context of reality. To your stuff about Sweden and refugees, income and wealth are related but separate concepts.

I am replying to the post and you're off somewhere else faltering in your efforts. Even at the 20th percentile ain't no Americans better off than middle class Europeans unless you operate under a perverse and objectively dishonest analysis structured to favor your own views. CanShootGuns+500 AccessToDecentHealthCareThatWon'tBankruptYourFamily+15

But you’re not replying to the post! Pointing to the plight of people in the Texas colonias tells you literally nothing about the point made in the post you’re replying to. If it was talking about people at the bottom 3% you’d have a point.

As to your changing the goal posts by talking about healthcare. There is nothing “perverse and dishonest” about measuring which country is the “richest” based on capacity for consumption. The vast majority of Americans, even at the 20th percentile, will never go bankrupt due to medical bills. But they will all get to enjoy much higher consumption (bigger houses, more cars, more TVs) than the average European. (And maybe, just maybe, Americans aren’t irrational and simply prefer the trade off they have made.)

Now, you may personally value the security of not having the possibility of crippling medical debt over the potential for higher consumption. I probably would too! But it’s not so obviously the only correct way to view things that it would be “perverse” and “objectively dishonest” to measure which country is the “richest” in a way that doesn’t place dispositive value on that security. Put differently, you’re simply defining “being rich” as “being secure.” That’s not the only way to define it.

Re: US takes 'richest nation on earth' crown from Switzerland

#96
post #55
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you still have plenty of homesless and destitute. Pretty sad that you can't look after the most vunerable.

Homelessness rates in the US are lower than many big European countries: https://www.oecd.org/els/family/HC3-1-Homeless-population.pd... Lower than France, Germany, and the UK, Sweden, Canada, and Australia. Equal to the Netherlands.

You read the part where they say things are not really comparable because different nations use different definitions, right?

E.g. if you scroll in the article you will find that Germany reports as homeless: "Living temporarily with family and friends due to lack of housing", "Living in institutions"

"Living in institutions" is clarified as: "Including people who stay longer than needed in health institutions needed due to lack of housing; and people in penal institutions with no housing available prior to release".

The US does not count these categories.

Now, it would be interesting to see how the numbers would change if the US actually counted all the millennials who moved back in with their parents because they could not find an affordable place, and all the prisoners and parolees who stay with relatives.

Re: US takes 'richest nation on earth' crown from Switzerland

#97
post #55
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you still have plenty of homesless and destitute. Pretty sad that you can't look after the most vunerable.

Homelessness rates in the US are lower than many big European countries: https://www.oecd.org/els/family/HC3-1-Homeless-population.pd... Lower than France, Germany, and the UK, Sweden, Canada, and Australia. Equal to the Netherlands.

It sounds like these statistics are utterly useless for national comparisons

> About half of the surveyed countries also cover people living in non-conventional dwellings and people living temporarily with family and friends due to lack of housing,

> In Sweden the official figure given by the National Board of Health and Welfare includes lots of people who don’t have a permanent home but aren’t living in shelters or on the streets. For instance, Sweden includes people set to be released from jail within three months and have nowhere to go

Re: US takes 'richest nation on earth' crown from Switzerland

#98
post #36
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you still have plenty of homesless and destitute. Pretty sad that you can't look after the most vunerable.

I saw a ton of people sleeping on mattresses and blankets in German train stations last time I went. Were they just enjoying their freedom from the pressures of society? Maybe we should look at this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homeless_... So what are you talking about exactly?

What does that have to do with the US having the resources to do something about it, and not doing anything?

Re: US takes 'richest nation on earth' crown from Switzerland

#100
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you still have plenty of homesless and destitute. Pretty sad that you can't look after the most vunerable.

Have you been to a major European train station recently?

Somehow I'm the one deflecting?
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