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It's time to talk about post-RMS Free Software

mjg59.dreamwidth.org

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Re: It's time to talk about post-RMS Free Software

#91

Post by [deleted] »

mikeash wrote: post #53
krapp wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So basically, just put up with it and do nothing consequential? RMS isn't some random asshole who made a slightly off-color remark, he's a leader whose influence and cult of personality have shaped the culture around F/OSS development and programming for decades, who appears to have troubling issues around the concept of sex and consent with minors. He's also a man known for his intransigence, so the chances of him "…

“Gosh, why are there so few women in tech? It’s such a mystery. I guess the female brain just isn’t as suited for programming. There is definitely nothing we can or should do to change the situation.” I am so disgusted with this community right now.

[deleted]

Re: It's time to talk about post-RMS Free Software

#92

Post by ndidi »

pjc50 wrote: post #68
ndidi wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I feel i can’t even have a reasonable conversation about diversity, ignorance, or whatever the controversy of the day is. Conform, or else. I mean, I don't agree with what rms said, and I think sexual degenerates should be shot in the head, but Jesus, what the fuck do I care about his stance on politics. It's not my fucking problem.

"I don't care about his stance on politics but I think he should be shot in the head" is one hell of a take.

In this context that's implying that rms has done things such as looking for child pornography online, which is something we don't know and can't prove. Defending the right to do something != doing something

Re: It's time to talk about post-RMS Free Software

#93

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

mikeash wrote: post #80
zzzcpan wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If your movement's leadership acts in a way that hurts the movement, what's the appropriate response? Everything short of pushing RMS out has been tried already. You are making a baseless assumption that it hurts the movement and are using it to push a change in leadership to someone, who is ideologically more aligned with your views (presumably, maybe you have hidden agendas, who knows). To me it seems that politi…

These are not “controversial opinions.” Controversial opinions are things like “Chernobyl wasn’t that bad” or “abortion is murder.” This is just a guy defending the rape of children.

He wasn't defending the rape of children.

Re: It's time to talk about post-RMS Free Software

#94

Post by twd99 »

it is all about rms being rms. When an act of illegal copying copyrighted material is called piracy, he pedantically says that it is a wrong term, because piracy is a penal crime that involves violence and forcible property theft.

when a pimp presents an underage woman to a customer, he pedantically says that it wasn't an assault.

I've read the whole email thread and didn't see him defending child rape and sex trafficking. Maybe ones who are quick to condemn him should read something but the medium post

Re: It's time to talk about post-RMS Free Software

#95

Post by DanBC »

mikeash wrote: post #81
DanBC wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's autistic and he probably has trouble with communication. He might not know that it's a terrible idea to quibble about why his preferred definition of assault is better than the commonly accepted and used definition.

Surely an autistic person is still capable of learning these things. If he is not capable of that, then he’s disastrously unqualified to be leading an advocacy organization.

I'm not defending him.

Re: It's time to talk about post-RMS Free Software

#96

Post by DanBC »

krapp wrote: post #89
DanBC wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's autistic and he probably has trouble with communication. He might not know that it's a terrible idea to quibble about why his preferred definition of assault is better than the commonly accepted and used definition.

>He's autistic and he probably has trouble with communication. His job is communication. His eloquence, and the precision of his language have been praised more than once here. And autism doesn't come with a "get out of social consequences" card. Certainly not for a sixty year old man.

> And autism doesn't come with a "get out of social consequences" card.

I agree.

Re: It's time to talk about post-RMS Free Software

#97

Post by DanBC »

AstralStorm wrote: post #84
Jonnax wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“ I am skeptical of the claim that voluntarily [sic] pedophilia harms children.” https://stallman.org/archives/2006-mar-jun.html#05%20June%20...

It does, but how badly, it depends? What are the worst kinds, what are relatively harmless if any? Does our current handling thereof help or harm? If those questions are not answered, we're flying blind. Also there are some stupid things done like putting 18 y.o. boy in jail for sleeping with his 16 y.o. girlfriend, consensually. Someone should do actual not politically correct and not victim culture motivated resear…

Child sexual abuse is strongly linked to a range of mental illness later on in life.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0...

> Someone should do actual not politically correct and not victim culture motivated research.

Someone should take a few minutes to read the reams of research that has been written about this rather than parotting NAMBLA discussion points.

Re: It's time to talk about post-RMS Free Software

#98

Post by DanBC »

AstralStorm wrote: post #85
mjg59 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, the definition of "sexual assault" presumes no such thing.

The law definition in the United States, you mean. In Poland, it requires use of force or coercion on part of the person doing the sexual act. Without it, say drugging and then letting someone else do it, it's "just" assault. (The other person is committing sexual assault.) What Epstein did is called pimping and also punishable by law. Potentially also abduction or assault. Forcing a minor to commence a sexual act is…

> The law definition in the United States, you mean.

No, the everyday English word "assault" doesn't have to include "use of violence". RMS has wrongly said it does.

Re: It's time to talk about post-RMS Free Software

#99

Post by mikeash »

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #93
mikeash wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are not “controversial opinions.” Controversial opinions are things like “Chernobyl wasn’t that bad” or “abortion is murder.” This is just a guy defending the rape of children.

He wasn't defending the rape of children.

Well, he spent a bunch of words arguing it’s not rape. I suppose that is slightly different.

Re: It's time to talk about post-RMS Free Software

#100

Post by jrnichols »

deanclatworthy wrote: post #5

I grow more and more tired of these discussions. Talks of banishing people because they’re ignorant, rude, sexist. Conferences are getting shut down, people are having their world turned upside down for being ignorant. Every topic is a hot potato. I feel i can’t even have a reasonable conversation about diversity, ignorance, or whatever the controversy of the day is. It’s easier to just be quiet than express opinions…

> It’s easier to just be quiet than express opinions.

It's no wonder that instead of staying quiet, many wind up at echo chambers like Voat and Gab.

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