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I just don’t want to be a software developer anymore (2017)

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Re: I just don’t want to be a software developer anymore (2017)

#91

Post by username90 »

wolfgke wrote: post #79
AlexTWithBeard wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does a manager deserve to be condemned if he lowballs a man, because he thinks he can get away with it?

> Does a manager deserve to be condemned if he lowballs a man, because he thinks he can get away with it? Yes, because paying very different salaries for a very similar position causes a lot a damage to the reputation of the company if it comes to light.

If you negotiated 20% higher starting salary then you earn 20% more for the same work than the person who didn't. I don't know of many companies where you can't negotiate for a 20% higher starting salary so I don't really think this would cause a large reputation hit.

Re: I just don’t want to be a software developer anymore (2017)

#92

Post by OrangeMango »

bluedevil2k wrote: post #71
jacobwilliamroy wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But at what cost? It sounds nice to be in the top 25% but if the conditions are unsustainable, it won't matter.

That's a rather bleak outlook on life. And nonsense. If you get a nice job in Austin for $120k, you can buy a house in a nice neighborhood, let your wife stay at home with the 3 kids, own 2 cars, take vacations. And it's been that way for the last 20 years I've been here.

> Austin for $120k, you can buy a house in a nice neighborhood, let your wife stay at home with the 3 kids, own 2 cars

I'm not that familiar with Austin, but a quick look at real estate listings show that four bedroom homes with two car garages are not commonly available for less than $400,000, unless you perhaps want to spend most of your non-working hours commuting.

Re: I just don’t want to be a software developer anymore (2017)

#93

Post by playing_colours »

wolfgke wrote: post #78
strikelaserclaw wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much one gets paid in relation to their peers is solely based on negotiation, in the beginning of my career i was a poor negotiator, after several years i did my research, got competing offers are used those as leverage to get the best offer. I was never taught any of these skills, i learned from experience, and by pushing myself to do things i'm uncomfortable with (would you believe me if i said in the beginning…

> How much one gets paid in relation to their peers is solely based on negotiation This is very US-specific and does not hold, for example, in Germany. I actually prefer the situation in Germany: this way, you can concentrate on getting better at programming instead of having to invest lots of time to become good at negotiation, too.

Some like negotiating.

The thing is that rigid salary levels they have in Germany is a drawback for people who has strong people skills, understanding of business, focus on delivery, width of knowledge, etc. Those make huge difference in the value you can bring to a company.

I want to talk to a company and show them the value I bring. You cannot sell yourself higher, if all employers look at are years of experience, and dry description of what work you did.

Re: I just don’t want to be a software developer anymore (2017)

#94

Post by vonseel »

jdmoreira wrote: post #89

I agree with a lot of things in the article and I can relate to the author but this quote really threw me off >"some guy who does the same work as me is getting paid 20% more” (the author being female) Several times in my career I've found that other male developers (me being male) that I considered not even good made 50% more than me. Sometimes I found out that I made 50% more than other younger developers that I co…

I agree but it's difficult to make any comment on this sort of thing without being misinterpreted and/or seen as minimizing women's equality and the right to equal pay.

As far as the rest of her article, I agree with it and I'm a single, white, straight male. Sure, I like coding, but at the end of the day a job is a job and, in the words of the author herself, I dream of a world where we all work less..

Re: I just don’t want to be a software developer anymore (2017)

#95

Post by vonseel »

Is it common for people under ~35 to have so much back pain and medical issues? I thought back pain in young people is usually related to something like a bad injury.

I get back pain when I'm working at the desk a lot, but that's at the end of 14+ hour days sitting around with minimal movement.

Re: I just don’t want to be a software developer anymore (2017)

#96

Post by vonseel »

vgoh1 wrote: post #73

This article makes me feel a little better about my life decisions. I started programming at age 12, but as my major I chose mechanical engineering because at the time, there was a lot of talk about the US software industry crashing and it all going to India. I'm not going to try to portray mechanical engineering as all roses - the pay is a bit lower, and the chances of becoming a break-out rock start are much lower…

but as my major I chose mechanical engineering because at the time, there was a lot of talk about the US software industry crashing and it all going to India.

I was in college 07-11. When I later asked my dad "WTF why did I not study CS?" he told me pretty much verbatim what you said... we thought it was going to India. I wonder if you were a student around the same time period? In retrospect, things quickly changed around 2012 coming out of the recession, and I suspect the industry had been picking up steam for a while after a few generations of iPhones and mobile gaining early traction.

Re: I just don’t want to be a software developer anymore (2017)

#97

Post by jdmoreira »

vonseel wrote: post #94
jdmoreira wrote: post #89

I agree with a lot of things in the article and I can relate to the author but this quote really threw me off >"some guy who does the same work as me is getting paid 20% more” (the author being female) Several times in my career I've found that other male developers (me being male) that I considered not even good made 50% more than me. Sometimes I found out that I made 50% more than other younger developers that I co…

I agree but it's difficult to make any comment on this sort of thing without being misinterpreted and/or seen as minimizing women's equality and the right to equal pay. As far as the rest of her article, I agree with it and I'm a single, white, straight male. Sure, I like coding, but at the end of the day a job is a job and, in the words of the author herself, I dream of a world where we all work less. .

I hope people don’t misunderstand my comment to mean that I want to live in a world where women make less than men just because they are women. I certainly don’t and yet that’s the world we live in.

On the other hand this particular example from the author is not a very good one since we all know men make +/- 20% from each other

Re: I just don’t want to be a software developer anymore (2017)

#98

Post by vonseel »

jdmoreira wrote: post #97
vonseel wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree but it's difficult to make any comment on this sort of thing without being misinterpreted and/or seen as minimizing women's equality and the right to equal pay. As far as the rest of her article, I agree with it and I'm a single, white, straight male. Sure, I like coding, but at the end of the day a job is a job and, in the words of the author herself, I dream of a world where we all work less. .

I hope people don’t misunderstand my comment to mean that I want to live in a world where women make less than men just because they are women. I certainly don’t and yet that’s the world we live in. On the other hand this particular example from the author is not a very good one since we all know men make +/- 20% from each other

men make +/- 20% from each other

It can go a lot more than 20%, and it doesn't always have to do with bias/minorities/etc.

I think plenty of people just get paid less because they aren't strong negotiators or don't know how much they should be requesting. Sure, the latest salary report they saw online said people are getting $150k for similar jobs, but are they really getting $150k at XYZ company in your town, or are those numbers inflated by liars/SF|NYC|LA roles? Those are the thoughts that go through my head, at least, in addition to "Am I really worth that? They would offer me X if I was worth X, right?".

Re: I just don’t want to be a software developer anymore (2017)

#99

Post by rswskg »

jdmoreira wrote: post #89

I agree with a lot of things in the article and I can relate to the author but this quote really threw me off >"some guy who does the same work as me is getting paid 20% more” (the author being female) Several times in my career I've found that other male developers (me being male) that I considered not even good made 50% more than me. Sometimes I found out that I made 50% more than other younger developers that I co…

100% this. An unrelenting blaming of gender(or anyone factor) means you are unlikely to find out the whole picture. It's never simple, often composed over decisions made over many years. Luck, politics, hard work, perception, sexism. Take your pick.

Re: I just don’t want to be a software developer anymore (2017)

#100

Post by martin_a »

bluedevil2k wrote: post #84
jacobwilliamroy wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Looking back at your comment history, they're all harsh, negative comments usually with a massive hyperbole. Anything positive to add?

Maybe, but is it wrong after all?

For example: Why are all those great engineers working for FAANG or other big tech companies although we know that they have some of the lowest morale standards when you see what they are building?

It's not because there is some higher purpose in their work, but because it pays well. The people need this money to keep going on with their lives.

There's a strange dependence going on: If you want to live in the bay area, you'll likely have to work for one of those companies with questionable ethics, because otherwise you can't pay your rent, have no medical insurance or what not.

And I think this is not only limited to tech in the bay area but probably a problem all over the US because some basic social security systems are just not present.

If I'm getting sick tomorrow, I will get my full loan for the next 6 weeks (paid by my employer), after that I'll get somewhat around 70% of it for as long as I'm well again (paid by public health insurance). And it won't cost me anything more or less whether it's a cold or I lost half of my body parts and need to be stitched back together again.

Why does something like this not work in the US universally for everybody?

What's deeply "wrong" with the people in the US that something like "Obama Care" (I think that's what it was called in the media) is hated so much?

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