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Hong Kong leader to announce formal withdrawal of extradition bill

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Re: Hong Kong leader to announce formal withdrawal of extradition bill

#91
post #83
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is best workaround/outcome for both parties. With protesters not backing down, Beijing can now declare Lam has gone rogue and save its face. Cracking down on protesters definitely was not working. With international media presence they cannot crack down on protesters Tiananmen square style.

I'm not sure losing control of a subordinate counts as "saving face"

By declaring former subordinate as "rogue" they can save both average Chinese Mainlander wrath and save Lam from being ousted.

Re: Hong Kong leader to announce formal withdrawal of extradition bill

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>only peaceful non-violent struggle can bring about real change. Utterly false, but persistently preached by those in power to ensure there's never any real threat to their position. "Just lie down while I stomp your neck. Don't resist. We'll discuss your objections later, at a more convenient time." All political power emanates from the barrel of a gun. All civil power emanates from the people's latent threat to rev…

> Utterly false, but persistently preached by those in power A non-violent protestor is a person who does not fear anything, and the person who doesn't fear is the most powerful one. Violence is a result of fear, that's the reason need to use weapons and aids to fight back to increase the chances of survival. A true warrior is a fearless person who respond to violence with non-violence and make violent person ashamed…

Nice and lofty platitudes. But they will shoot you and or imprison you the same.

Re: Hong Kong leader to announce formal withdrawal of extradition bill

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>only peaceful non-violent struggle can bring about real change. Utterly false, but persistently preached by those in power to ensure there's never any real threat to their position. "Just lie down while I stomp your neck. Don't resist. We'll discuss your objections later, at a more convenient time." All political power emanates from the barrel of a gun. All civil power emanates from the people's latent threat to rev…

> Utterly false, but persistently preached by those in power A non-violent protestor is a person who does not fear anything, and the person who doesn't fear is the most powerful one. Violence is a result of fear, that's the reason need to use weapons and aids to fight back to increase the chances of survival. A true warrior is a fearless person who respond to violence with non-violence and make violent person ashamed…

Well, you know. You expect the violent person to be ashamed of themselves. That's a very bold assumption. A psychopath or sociopath won't feel a thing when they order their army to mow down peaceful protestors.

It's a beautiful idea really. But when you are given no option other than to fight, do you think it's wrong for them to do so? Jewish, Armenians, Chinese under Japanese occupation? Might have not mattered, might have. I guess it depends on the person. An exaggeration of course compared to the issue at hand, but it seems wishful idealism. In some cases, yes, it works. But when your adversary doesn't care, it's quite ineffective. Game-theory wise I think equal repercussion works quite well, where violence is met with violence in order to prevent it from happening. Sure not always, but if there is no punishment it's simply much too advantageous to use violence if it solves the problem.

I mean school bullies probably won't stop unless you hit them or they get some sort of punishment. Sure you'll feel probably mighty wise if you don't resort to violence or any kind of resistance, but it's unhelpful if it doesn't stop it. And in the meantime you'll be suffering tremendously.

Re: Hong Kong leader to announce formal withdrawal of extradition bill

#94
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a source for this claim that Beijing instructed her to not give in to any demands?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hongkong-protests-china-e... >The Chinese central government rejected Lam’s proposal to withdraw the extradition bill and ordered her not to yield to any of the protesters’ other demands at that time, three individuals with direct knowledge of the matter told Reuters.

[deleted]

Re: Hong Kong leader to announce formal withdrawal of extradition bill

#95
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the party has stated loud and clear that China will fight America (and the evil West) no matter what, at all costs and to the very end.

Soviet communists also used to say this.

Interesting yes.

There's a great Freakonomics about the history of supermarkets which turns out to have been a major force in the cold war. USDA pushed and supported cheap mass production and even transportation, making what we now expect in a big, well stocked market with low prices and wide selection. We set up modern demo markets in the Ukraine which probably hit home, literally, because the Soviet markets were bare and droll. This tech was even studied by the Soviets but they couldn't reproduce it.

It seems hitting the stomachs was just as important as hitting the minds and the missiles.

http://freakonomics.com/podcast/farms-race/

Re: Hong Kong leader to announce formal withdrawal of extradition bill

#96
post #55

Random: Did you know Guangzhou (Canton) was briefly capital of China back in the day? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_China_(1912%E2%80%... There's an important political figure in the history of modern China: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Yat-sen He studied medicine in HK. He lived in Hawaii for a time [1]. He had a political philosophy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Principles_of_the_People To m…

Why is it surprising? Cantonese is one of the largest subgroups of "han".

Re: Hong Kong leader to announce formal withdrawal of extradition bill

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>only peaceful non-violent struggle can bring about real change. Utterly false, but persistently preached by those in power to ensure there's never any real threat to their position. "Just lie down while I stomp your neck. Don't resist. We'll discuss your objections later, at a more convenient time." All political power emanates from the barrel of a gun. All civil power emanates from the people's latent threat to rev…

> Utterly false, but persistently preached by those in power A non-violent protestor is a person who does not fear anything, and the person who doesn't fear is the most powerful one. Violence is a result of fear, that's the reason need to use weapons and aids to fight back to increase the chances of survival. A true warrior is a fearless person who respond to violence with non-violence and make violent person ashamed…

Safe and peaceful is not the same thing as free.

Re: Hong Kong leader to announce formal withdrawal of extradition bill

#98
post #72
post #2

I don't think Beijing anticipated or endorsed this. In context of Lams leaked resignation remarks yesterday, it looks like Lam is going rogue. She's setting herself up to be replaced via disobedience, because all signs pointed to Emergency Regulations Ordinance being invoked if protest continues. Her legacy is already ruined, but I think she doesn't have the stomach to double down that far. Beijing specifically instr…

I would argue that Beijing didn't anticipate the resolve of the protestors, but they would certainly know about and endorse Lam's backdown. China is happy to play the long game - they apply pressure to HK to bring them inline with China, people protest, they back of a little, but not all the way. They wait ... then apply pressure again. The idea is that by 2047 when the 'one country, two systems' arrangement expires,…

That sounds likely. When Britain colonized Hong Kong, it took them more than 70+ years to pacify the people.

Especially after the ‘67 protests, that resulted in 51 deaths.

China is hoping the next generation will be more friendly. Like how the people of Macau are.

Re: Hong Kong leader to announce formal withdrawal of extradition bill

#99
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was in China for 3 months this year. Both rural and urban areas. People said "You will never be hungry in China" and they are right. They are enough substitutes for pork, many of them just as delicious.

I believe that's not how economics works, it's like you can't just close your eyes to rocketing condo prices and expect evetything else to remain the same like salaries. Every animal protein source will be driven to raise prices coz it's not like China could produce vastly more but refrained, arable land is not enough, it imports 30% of it's food, they just can't produce the cheap feed crops needed not to mention the…

>Recent 15 years

Impressive how arrogant and ignorant this statement is. 15 years ago is 2004 and fk how superior am I to eat meat since 80’s in a third tier city

Re: Hong Kong leader to announce formal withdrawal of extradition bill

#100
post #2

I don't think Beijing anticipated or endorsed this. In context of Lams leaked resignation remarks yesterday, it looks like Lam is going rogue. She's setting herself up to be replaced via disobedience, because all signs pointed to Emergency Regulations Ordinance being invoked if protest continues. Her legacy is already ruined, but I think she doesn't have the stomach to double down that far. Beijing specifically instr…

I read this exact same comment on Reddit. Word for word. Very strange.

Edit: Its same user id, probably this user just cross-posted.

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