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Manufacturers want to quit China for Vietnam, but find it impossible

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Re: Manufacturers want to quit China for Vietnam, but find it impossible

#91

Post by Alupis »

chopin wrote: post #62
Alupis wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a little bit different when the person had taken up arms against the nation, no? Should they get a court hearing? Probably. Is that practical, in some cases, if the person could be apprehended. Otherwise it would just be a pony show with a predetermined outcome, making no difference.

The right to a fair trial should not depend on whether it is practical.

The thought was - without the individual at the trial with their own legal counsel - is it a fair trail anyway? If it's a military tribunal that rubber-stamps everything - does that improve the process any?

Perhaps it would have been better in the specific case to first revoke the person's citizenship?

Re: Manufacturers want to quit China for Vietnam, but find it impossible

#92

Post by chopin »

Alupis wrote: post #91
chopin wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The right to a fair trial should not depend on whether it is practical.

The thought was - without the individual at the trial with their own legal counsel - is it a fair trail anyway? If it's a military tribunal that rubber-stamps everything - does that improve the process any? Perhaps it would have been better in the specific case to first revoke the person's citizenship?

My thought was: Either the person is present and represented or there be no trial. This must not depend on whether presence is hard to achieve.

Revoking citizenship or at least leaving persons stateless is not allowed under UN-Charta afaik. Even then, would you blatantly kill (or better, murder) people? That's not rule of law, but rule of jungle. And as uncivilized as it gets.

Re: Manufacturers want to quit China for Vietnam, but find it impossible

#93

Post by Alupis »

chopin wrote: post #92
Alupis wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thought was - without the individual at the trial with their own legal counsel - is it a fair trail anyway? If it's a military tribunal that rubber-stamps everything - does that improve the process any? Perhaps it would have been better in the specific case to first revoke the person's citizenship?

My thought was: Either the person is present and represented or there be no trial. This must not depend on whether presence is hard to achieve. Revoking citizenship or at least leaving persons stateless is not allowed under UN-Charta afaik. Even then, would you blatantly kill (or better, murder) people? That's not rule of law, but rule of jungle. And as uncivilized as it gets.

Specifically, the known cases of this are people which have taken up arms against the nation, and joined a known terrorist organization. Potentially, even killing citizens of their former country.

I don't see a way to capture and try such an individual without having more citizens put in harm's way, or killed too. If the individual is in a training camp that is targeted and happens to be killed as well - I personally don't think anything of it. But that is starkly different than assassinating some individual in their apartment or hotel, or whatever. To me, one is warfare, and the other is murder - I do make that distinction.

Perhaps we must agree to disagree.

Re: Manufacturers want to quit China for Vietnam, but find it impossible

#94

Post by zhdc1 »

ksec wrote: post #56
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China would rather not play with fire here, the Vietnamese night invite the USA to establish a naval base or something if pushed too far, especially considering the current South China Sea contests. (Ironically a reversal of USA support for China during the sino Vietnam war)

I wonder what are the possibilities of that happening? It is sort of the indicator of how much Vietnamese hate China, by settling with US.

It's unlikely. Chinese intervention in Korea and Vietnam was mainly about keeping US troops off of the Chinese boarder. China's invasion of Vietnam was also partially about limiting Soviet influence in that country.

Re: Manufacturers want to quit China for Vietnam, but find it impossible

#95

Post by latchkey »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #89
latchkey wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you've lived in Vietnam, you'd understand. The govt here does not act with the same logic that you (or I) may have. For example, here is an English translated news website, that is run by the govt. Recently, they ran this story... https://tuoitrenews.vn/news/education/20190812/in-vietnam-mi... One choice quote: "Another Ho Chi Minh City citizen named Hai set a strict weekly timetable for his daughter to study comp…

Your response is a complete non-sequitur. It has absolutely nothing to do with why the government would falsely say population growth is smaller than it actually is.

My response is spot on, it is just that it apparently went over your head. My assertion is that the govt of Vietnam has no clue what their population growth actually is. They throw numbers out in the wind, like they toss out theories that teaching kids art and english, causes autism.

Re: Manufacturers want to quit China for Vietnam, but find it impossible

#97

Post by lunchables »

roboys wrote: post #77
BurningFrog wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US assassinates its own citizens without trial occasionally. Don't judge by the anomalies, judge by the everyday life for regular people.

US police are the 6th leading cause of African American deaths. I watched an HK detainee get tortured in a hospital in horror, then remembered we kill thousands of unarmed people every couple years without any trial (many of whom are innocent) and 50-60% of victims are either mentally or physically disabled in some way. Many of them get tortured in similar ways if they make it to prison. In a different framing, the U…

>US police are the 6th leading cause of African American deaths.

No it's not.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/233310/distribution-of-t...

Only 215 black people were killed by police last year.

>https://www.theroot.com/here-s-how-many-people-police-killed...

Re: Manufacturers want to quit China for Vietnam, but find it impossible

#98

Post by bduerst »

panda88888 wrote: post #50
dmix wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never understood how Asian regional free trade agreements and China providing loans to developing countries is really a threat to the west. Why exactly should the World Bank and the US/Europe be the only top players in the game again? Has all the strings attached to that help really made the world a better place? As far as I'm concerned extreme poverty or simply poverty is enough of a goal to target. Attempting…

> I've never understood how Asian regional free trade agreements and China providing loans to developing countries is really a threat to the west. It’s a threat from the US perspective, in the US national interest. Currently, the US is the top dog internationally, both economically and politically. As China increases its influence especially in the Asia and Africa region via economic investment and, potentially, demo…

Precisely. U.S. imperialism is based on smart power, a combination of soft (aid packages, trade, etc.) and hard (military) power. The RCEP creates barriers and increases competition for U.S. imperialism, hindering it's soft power capabilities in APAC to negotiate trade deals. The sheer size of it would help propel both India and China economically - if it moves forward that is.

Re: Manufacturers want to quit China for Vietnam, but find it impossible

#99

Post by Steve44 »

ksec wrote: post #54
Steve44 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm currently in the food packaging industry and over the past few years we have been seeing manufacturing move from China to Vietnam and India. Likewise in Europe it’s moving from Poland out to Romania, Greece, and also Turkey. These decisions are largely based on manufacturing costs.

Working in Food industry as well, do you have any web site that specialise in Food Packaging news?

Have a look at a the trade association http://foodservicepackaging.org.uk/ and also https://www.packagingnews.co.uk/ which covers other packaging but there is a fair amount of foodservice items covered.
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