We are surrounded by more and more genies that have escaped their bottles. The current tax systems we have are the result, and I'm afraid I don't see any way that's going to change.
Activision Blizzard has moved billions of dollars of profit into tax havens
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Re: Activision Blizzard has moved billions of dollars of profit into tax havens
#92It's downright ridiculous to complain about companies taking perfectly legal steps to reduce their tax burden. As the oft-quoted US judge Learned Hand said: > Anyone may arrange his affairs so that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which best pays the treasury. There is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes. Over and over again the Courts have said that there is…
Learned Hand never sat on the Supreme Court; he was a district and appellate judge for the Second Circuit.
Thank you so much, I can't believe I got that wrong. I've been mistaken on this for far too long.
Re: Activision Blizzard has moved billions of dollars of profit into tax havens
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you took a major step up from something that isn't actively killing anyone to something that is.
Just wanted to illustrate that it's not as simple as "legal = blameless". For a less extreme example, what about Keurig's coffee DRM? Or the DRM on printer cartridges? Or Microsoft pushing the patented FAT32 (and now exFAT) filesystem? Or Disney lobbying for extended copyright? Google promoting AMP pages? Online stores using pressure tactics like "Hurry, only N left in stock!", and other dark patterns?
And I'm just saying that, for the company, if they don't take these measures their shareholders and their board could literally throw a fit. These loopholes exist, and if they don't use them they'll just get swapped out for executives/accountants that will. If you want this fixed don't blame the company, blame the lawmakers that refuse to fix this.
Re: Activision Blizzard has moved billions of dollars of profit into tax havens
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
It doesn't matter. Like I said, either way, it is indicative of doing something wrong.
Not really, it's simply indicative of a disagreement. wrong tends to suggest tax fraud.
I think you're being a little consciously naive.
Choosing not to prosecute (especially because prosecuting tax fraud requires proof of willfulness) and simply collecting a tax deficit is pretty common, especially in cases of corporate tax evasion.
The disagreement in this case is called a tax deficit, and is what I meant by wrong. It's also the first necessary part of tax fraud.
EDIT: Also, if you read about the source of the $345 million tax bill (from the article), it's hard to see how this would've been a problem with "unclear phrasing"...
Re: Activision Blizzard has moved billions of dollars of profit into tax havens
#95Re: Activision Blizzard has moved billions of dollars of profit into tax havens
#96It's downright ridiculous to complain about companies taking perfectly legal steps to reduce their tax burden. As the oft-quoted US judge Learned Hand said: > Anyone may arrange his affairs so that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which best pays the treasury. There is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes. Over and over again the Courts have said that there is…
In fact, the gov’t often uses tax policy to incentivize certain behavior (lower capital gains tax on long term capital gains).
The gov’t is expecting tax players to optimize for the lowest tax rate!
Re: Activision Blizzard has moved billions of dollars of profit into tax havens
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's fair. Do you know what a moral amount would be? I don't know, but I also doubt that anyone else really knows.
I assure you I don't know the exact number but I can imagine that non-zero moral amount exists.
That's fair, but the amount taxes Activision Blizzard are paying is non-zero. Are they doing wrong? If yes, how much should the pay?
Re: Activision Blizzard has moved billions of dollars of profit into tax havens
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
Morality exists outside of what the law states. You're suggesting that because you can imagine both a too strict and too lenient law, morality is an impossible concept?
I believe everyone having the same morality is an impossible concept.
I'm not sure that's relevant to whether you personally find it moral. This conversation could exist from a personal perspective of what you find moral.
That said, even if we all have different morals it seems they're mostly compatible.
Re: Activision Blizzard has moved billions of dollars of profit into tax havens
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hmm. When the date rolls around to file your returns, I'm assuming you don't actually attempt to maximize your returns?
Few people do. Most people attempt to fill out their returns in a rather straightforward manner as laid out by the forms. The loopholes are not published in the tax forms.
I don’t think it’s a few.
Did you put money in a 401k?
Did you buy a house and calculate the tax deduction?
Did you hold onto a stock so you’d get the lower long term capital gains rate?
Did you contribute to an HSA or FSA?
The majority of people make decisions that optimize their tax rate.
Re: Activision Blizzard has moved billions of dollars of profit into tax havens
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
I operate a small business with 3 employees, I'm certainly incentivised to fend for us. jnwatson worded my actual arguments better than I would.
You're not fending for a small business with 3 employees, which anyway, let's be serious can't afford any fancy tax shenanigans, you're fending for a big business with several thousand employees. This company had a record revenue year and yet they decided to cut 800 jobs.
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