US military is a bigger polluter than as many as 140 countries • Hacker News Board

Re: US military is a bigger polluter than as many as 140 countries

#91

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 2:13 PM UTC

PaulHoule wrote: post #80

Circuits wrote: post #70

Our military (US) and military budget is just another cold war era echo which has been propagating for far too long. There are so many alarmist media outlets in this country who 'make their steak' off of fear mongering (looking at you FOX news) and what's more unfortunate is the general public's seeming endless supply of naive assent too their ideals and tactics. It isn't the US governments fault the military industr…

I used to be a fan of Noam Chomsky and think that the U.S. was a negative force in the world. I can point to plenty of kneecapping and bad policies. However in 2019 I see the rise of authoritarian states such as China, Russia and their "fellow travelers" and I think that freedom is very much at risk. Green Party activist Howie Hawkins, for instance, goes to rallies where they want to see NATO demolished but when Russ…

[deleted]

Re: US military is a bigger polluter than as many as 140 countries

#92

Post by archgoon » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 2:15 PM UTC

ladyattis wrote: post #33

ThomPete wrote: post #27

One thing that is always missing from these discussions is the whole picture. You have to factor the pros and the cons in any situation. This kind of headlines and focus only focuses on the negatives with regards but forget to ask why we have a military, to begin with and what the cost would be if we didn't. A much healthier approach IMO is to look at how we can improve energy production in general as that's at the h…

The thing I take away from these discussions is that the military is covering for a greater failing of our own civilian governments which constantly refuse to do their job in terms of diplomacy. Instead, we just build bigger sticks in place of more cleverly employed carrots as it were. If we were rational actors we'd employ economic measures which would be many times more effective than an atomic bomb. But as I said,…

Europe mostly plays the good cop to the United States bad cop; the main problem arises when the US doesn't understand this.

Re: US military is a bigger polluter than as many as 140 countries

#93

Post by beobab » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 2:16 PM UTC

brlewis wrote: post #72

Circuits wrote: post #70

Our military (US) and military budget is just another cold war era echo which has been propagating for far too long. There are so many alarmist media outlets in this country who 'make their steak' off of fear mongering (looking at you FOX news) and what's more unfortunate is the general public's seeming endless supply of naive assent too their ideals and tactics. It isn't the US governments fault the military industr…

> stop living under the yoke of fear and distraction pumped out by the media machine If you have a solution that scales up to the population at large I'm all ears.

Get everyone "vaccinated"?

https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/fake-news-vaccine-works-...

Re: US military is a bigger polluter than as many as 140 countries

#94

Post by bsaul » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 2:17 PM UTC

Circuits wrote: post #70

Our military (US) and military budget is just another cold war era echo which has been propagating for far too long. There are so many alarmist media outlets in this country who 'make their steak' off of fear mongering (looking at you FOX news) and what's more unfortunate is the general public's seeming endless supply of naive assent too their ideals and tactics. It isn't the US governments fault the military industr…

it’s funny how most people forget that every single american president since georges bush junior has been elected on the promise of reducing us’s involvment into foreign countries ( i’m old enough to remember people accused him of being isolationist), but have all been prevented to so by external events.

With the rise of China and its exponential military spendings, do you think that decreasing us military budget would be a wise strategic move ?

Re: US military is a bigger polluter than as many as 140 countries

#95

Post by saiya-jin » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 2:18 PM UTC

griffinkelly wrote: post #49

ssijak wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are living inside a big bubble. When was the last time China showed military aggresion outside its borders, especialy on the other side of the world? US doing the “checking” around the world left countless people dead for nothing, and a lot of countries ruined. Not to mention trillions od dollars spent on financing that. US complain about Russia meddling with US elections (through 150k worth of Facebook a…

China is showing force against Taiwan: https://www.scmp.com/news/china/military/article/3004049/tai... China is building islands all around the South China Sea: https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy-defence/article/21... China now has a presence in Africa too: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/africa/pentagon-accuses-chinese...

First 2 items are about their borders - not that I agree with the actions, but these are completely understandable.

The Africa still isn't a proper comparison - building few bases where you invest tons of money and extract crutial resources isn't the point here, bloody invasions that destroy whole region for generations and kill millions innocent are. And this is something specific to US, even Russia didn't do anything comparable.

Anything after WWII, maybe but just maybe including Korea is actively adding evil to this world. But I suspect not many americans are willing to accept truth here

Re: US military is a bigger polluter than as many as 140 countries

#96

Post by aoeaoeaoe » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 2:18 PM UTC

SiempreViernes wrote: post #23

Bucephalus355 wrote: post #4

This kind of research is well documented to be funded by foreign governments. The US Military night very well pollute an extraordinary amount, but such funding will mean we never get the emissions down in other countries and this has to be a global effort. The House Committee on Natural Resources has already sent several letters [1] to groups like the National Resource Defense Council asking why they have whitepapers…

Depends on what you mean by "foreign", it's research done by UK scientists. If you want to play that card, the IPCC itself is funded by "foreign governments", so you can go right ahead and denounce all climate science as a foreign influence operation. Honestly, I find the continued denial of the climate crisis very depressing (obviously I refer in part to your post Bucephalus355).

IPCC is a governmental lobby indeed that's why governmental reviewers have the final word on what appears in the report (Article 11 of IPCC legal statuses).

Re: US military is a bigger polluter than as many as 140 countries

#97

Post by jjoonathan » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 2:24 PM UTC

bsaul wrote: post #94

Circuits wrote: post #70

Our military (US) and military budget is just another cold war era echo which has been propagating for far too long. There are so many alarmist media outlets in this country who 'make their steak' off of fear mongering (looking at you FOX news) and what's more unfortunate is the general public's seeming endless supply of naive assent too their ideals and tactics. It isn't the US governments fault the military industr…

it’s funny how most people forget that every single american president since georges bush junior has been elected on the promise of reducing us’s involvment into foreign countries ( i’m old enough to remember people accused him of being isolationist), but have all been prevented to so by external events. With the rise of China and its exponential military spendings, do you think that decreasing us military budget wou…

I don't.

I'm surrounded by people who take our position in the world for granted and don't see any problem with gutting our military, though.

Re: US military is a bigger polluter than as many as 140 countries

#98

Post by pinkfoot » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 2:28 PM UTC

PaulHoule wrote: post #80

Circuits wrote: post #70

Our military (US) and military budget is just another cold war era echo which has been propagating for far too long. There are so many alarmist media outlets in this country who 'make their steak' off of fear mongering (looking at you FOX news) and what's more unfortunate is the general public's seeming endless supply of naive assent too their ideals and tactics. It isn't the US governments fault the military industr…

I used to be a fan of Noam Chomsky and think that the U.S. was a negative force in the world. I can point to plenty of kneecapping and bad policies. However in 2019 I see the rise of authoritarian states such as China, Russia and their "fellow travelers" and I think that freedom is very much at risk. Green Party activist Howie Hawkins, for instance, goes to rallies where they want to see NATO demolished but when Russ…

> … when Russia is carving up the Ukraine like a steak … it seems like NATO is more relevant today then ever.

NATO is not required for the Ukraine. Under the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances, 1994 - the USA, UK, and others committed to defend the territorial integrity of the Ukraine in exchange for them giving up the 3rd largest nuclear arsenal.

Then you didn't.

Why would NATO be different - under an actual peer-level invasion?

Re: US military is a bigger polluter than as many as 140 countries

#99

Post by dantondwa » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 2:30 PM UTC

flyinglizard wrote: post #85

PaulHoule wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to be a fan of Noam Chomsky and think that the U.S. was a negative force in the world. I can point to plenty of kneecapping and bad policies. However in 2019 I see the rise of authoritarian states such as China, Russia and their "fellow travelers" and I think that freedom is very much at risk. Green Party activist Howie Hawkins, for instance, goes to rallies where they want to see NATO demolished but when Russ…

There is nothing special about 2019 though. For Americans, the US war machine was always something vague and remote that sucks in money and spits out veterans who need to be taken of. However for many of those who live outside of USA, overseas where the US military operates, we understand that power vacuums are very potent and if not for US, some other country will fill the void, with soft or hard power. It’s not jus…

Heavenly is a large simplification. It has been heavenly for America and American companies and somewhat less terrible than other alternatives for its allies. Yes, the NATO has been very convenient for Europe. At the same time, it has meant being economically and politically subjected to the US will. For other less developed countries it has meant, sometimes, existence as de facto American puppet states. For countries which happened to be of strategic importance to the US or in disagreement with its model, it has meant downright destruction, war and catastrophes. Any time you call the US imperialism "heavenly", remember how it has begun, with two atomic bombs being thrown on two cities. Remember all the needless and actually lost wars the US have involved themselves and the world in. Remember the political meddling with local political affairs that the US has practised (the disaster that South America has been; plans like GLADIO and similia in Europe).

I much prefer democracy to autocracy. I also see the convenience of NATO. But sorry, I refuse to call American imperialism heavenly. It has been bloody, violent and with very little care for actual democracy and self-determination of nations.

Re: US military is a bigger polluter than as many as 140 countries

#100

Post by ApolloFortyNine » Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 2:38 PM UTC

This could be a poster child for how you can be telling the truth, but obviously are biased.

Wikipedia lists 186 countries GDP [1]. The 46th (186-46=140) listed country is Romania, with a GDP of $239 billion. In 2018, the U.S defense budget was just under $700 billion. Spending more money, and especially on a Navy at that, will obviously lead to more pollution.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nomi...