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Bullshit I had to go through while organizing a software conference

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Re: Bullshit I had to go through while organizing a software conference

#91
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think its right to fix the imbalance - what do you accomplish by it? Are you going to fix the imbalance everywhere you see it?

Yes. Aren't you?

Of course not. So, tell me, when are you going to be happy? When ratio in conferences are 33% men, 33% woman, 33% minorities? What did you accomplish by that?

Re: Bullshit I had to go through while organizing a software conference

#92
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing is this person didn't mention the other people. Telling this story this way isn't likely to be seen as attacking someone else / not a huge benefit to them / perhaps LESS of an incentive to lie..

From the article, it sounds like the only reason they didn't name the people was that their lawyer told them not to.

That is not correct. I have no interest in damaging anybody. That is why I did not write names and other things that happened in the article. He has already been banned from other conferences.

I am trying to protect myself based on what happened and other people told me, I assure you the last few weeks have been a hell for me. My only objective is to be able to run my conference as I want and not to be harrassed.

Re: Bullshit I had to go through while organizing a software conference

#93

Sounds like the same reason the Derbycon organizers aren't doing it again: https://www.derbycon.com/blog/derbycon-9-0-every-beginning-h...

>This year, we had to handle issues that honestly, as an adult, we would never expect to have to handle from other adults.

I had a similar experience in a class recently. I couldn't help but keep thinking "my 9 year old knows better than to behave like this" (and my 9 year old has his own developmental challenges). The behavior was really shocking considering everyone in the room was an adult.

Unfortunately there wasn't much I felt I could do. It was a short class, and I had the impression that this person was well versed in pulling the appropriate levers to protect themselves from any negative reaction to their behavior whatever they didn't like by claiming privilege, race, sex etc whenever possible (this person made lots of conspicuous references the very first day and the second .. .and so on before trouble started). They were also always just some terrible victim of something or other ... but as time went on it was pretty clear that it was all just a system that allowed them to behave poorly, make outbursts and bully others.

I specifically asked not to be in any groups with this person and my request was honored thankfully.

To be clear I mentioned privilege, race, and sex, any consideration of those things was NOT the source of the problem, had there been none of that I'm certain that the person in question would have found other ways to manipulate the situation, their behavior was the real issue.

Re: Bullshit I had to go through while organizing a software conference

#95

I've been a co-convener for two Python conferences in Vancouver. The conferences were small ( For me, the key sources of stress were: 1. hoping that tickets and sponsorship would cover our costs (at some point you have to pay for your venue, flights for your keynotes, etc. and this happens before ticket sales open). I think that we lost a few hundred dollars on the first conference and donated a few hundred dollars t…

> but I don't remember the organization being as stressful as the article describes

Well the article describes a very shitty and problematic situation that sure doesn't look like the norm anyway (but is good to keep in mind just in case it could happen).

Re: Bullshit I had to go through while organizing a software conference

#96
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I can't imagine legal action helping much. If they're continuing to harass them as described, it seems like a prudent choice.

What's outlined in the article doesn't meet the burden of proof. There was a conflict and OP solipsistically experienced it as a big deal. Meanwhile, there's plenty of oppression and destitution in the world, but let's all focus on some low-level drama because it's more entertaining.

>doesn't meet the burden of proof.

What burden of proof?

Re: Bullshit I had to go through while organizing a software conference

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

should we be aggressively encouraging men to take up nursing?

If you want the real examples, you look at daycare workers and elementary teachers. Insurance is an issue with daycares that hire male workers. Plus, you have quite a few parents that are fine with their boys being changed by women, but not their daughters being changed by men. Thus the problems, plus the pervasive stories of child molestation and societal stigma against males in this area. The shame of it is that wi…

It's definitely a problem, and it's not good that male role models are often lacking in earlier childhood education (especially when male role models may be lacking at home at well), but one key difference is that these aren't generally well-compensated positions.

Re: Bullshit I had to go through while organizing a software conference

#98
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the example ... there appear to be no "Cry Bullies" or similar action.

> ..."At that precise moment I saw the former speaker. She was calling the security of the event and using her cellphone to record me. She yelling that I was at the conference to stalk her, and that I was harassing her and following her. I never thought something like this could ever happen. It is worth noting that, at this point, I had only talked over the phone with her once, met her in person also once and, as I s…

I'm not sure what you mean by "cry bully" at this point.

Re: Bullshit I had to go through while organizing a software conference

#99
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Aren't you?

Of course not. So, tell me, when are you going to be happy? When ratio in conferences are 33% men, 33% woman, 33% minorities? What did you accomplish by that?

I think there is something wrong with your math there.

Re: Bullshit I had to go through while organizing a software conference

#100

I was with the author until the diversity and equity part. Why does everything have to boil down to skin color and gender? I don't see why you need to offer this for a tech conference. It should be about ability and topics. Edit: I already regret making this post.

Because there's a well-known imbalance, and not everything balances itself. Sometimes fairness requires stepping in and lending a helping hand to right an imbalance.

An imbalance existing does not imply that it is fair to right it. Taking a very rough approximation of the efficient market hypothesis, most career choices are approximately equally bad. You can only really choose what tradeoffs you want to make. Want to be a highly paid doctor? Prepare to spend at least 7 years doing long hours of difficult training. Don't want to do the training? Your choices are either low pay or physically taxing and/or dangerous work. Want to try to be a corporate executive? Most people who try spend many long, hard hours vying for corporate promotions and fail.

Software development is no exception here. Yes, it is a safe desk job. Yes, it pays well. It also has a pretty brutal and risky filtering process on hiring, significant cyclicality, high amounts of skill and learning requirements, and the role very often demands high performance. Oh, and you spend your time on work that tends to be less intrinsically rewarding and meaningful than something like nursing. These are pretty natural tradeoffs that make a lot of people decide that the field isn't for them, and the same sort of self-selection processes wind up with things like "roughly 90% of workplace deaths are male" too. I don't think it's fair to put your hand on the scales here for only one gender.

NB: I actually kind of regret getting into programming - I suspect I'd have been much happier if I went with my second choice and became an electrician.

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