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Dear Programming Job Applicants (2010)

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Re: Dear Programming Job Applicants (2010)

#91

Post by LandR »

ordinaryperson wrote: post #65

> If you say you’re a master of network protocols, guess what, I’ve maintained a TCP/IP stack, and unless you’re really a master I’m going to bury you. The goal of interviewing is never under any circumstances to "bury" someone with obscure, difficult questions. Even as the OP is obviously impressed with his own skill set ("I've maintained a TCP/IP stack") I'm sure someone coming from a different vantage point could…

Exactly, it sounds like this guy sees interviews as a way to feed his ego and make himself feel smarter than the candidate.

He would be a massive red flag to me as an indicator I don't want to work there.

Re: Dear Programming Job Applicants (2010)

#92

Post by ex_amazon_sde »

GordonS wrote: post #64
bartread wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - "Let's see if you can do Fizz Buzz!" Yes, exactly. I'd like to verify that you can string a few lines of code together to solve a trivially simple problem. This is not an unreasonable ask, and I really don't care how impressive your CV is. If you can't solve fizzbuzz you're not going to be able to solve any of the much more complicated problems we wrestle with on a day to day basis.

It's such a simple task, but in reality it's a fantastic way to weed out those that really don't have a clue what they're doing. Saves a lot of time interviewing.

Not at all. If the candidate can solve fizzbuzz but fails at more difficult coding challenges you won't hire him/her.

Therefore, the fizzbuzz test is not useful and it's offensive (or at least, boring) to any good candidate.

Re: Dear Programming Job Applicants (2010)

#93

Post by rzzzt »

frutiger wrote: post #86
leadingthenet wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeap. Even the hard-core Emacs fanboys at my work know a few basic vi/vim commands. I mean, you're almost certainly going to use it at some point in your career, might as well learn "i -> type something -> :wq" at the very least.

Don’t forget the or ^] to get back into normal mode.

I have mastered, in addition to the above, the skill of "dd" to delete an entire line and "q!" if you want to abandon any changes and quit.

Re: Dear Programming Job Applicants (2010)

#94

Post by yifanl »

bitL wrote: post #73
GordonS wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's such a simple task, but in reality it's a fantastic way to weed out those that really don't have a clue what they're doing. Saves a lot of time interviewing.

...unless the person you are interviewing decides you are childish, immediately walks away and doesn't respond to your mail ever again, and your business goes belly up as you can't find anyone on the market with the skills that person was bringing, essential to your business. Frankly, not sure why anyone competent in the current climate should take you seriously if you attempted that. It's equivalent to asking a part…

I mean honestly, Fizzbuzz is about the complexity you'll see in most of your day-to-day coding. So if you're too immature to go through with a task like that, then I'm afraid you're too immature to work here.

Re: Dear Programming Job Applicants (2010)

#95

Post by myhf »

ekzy wrote: post #84

> It’s funny how many people can’t edit text on any machine but their own. I tend to interview people on a laptop running Ubuntu, and I open gedit for them to use, with the offer that they can use any other Unix editor they like. Most can barely navigate gedit, and it’s stupid simple. No, it's not funny. Accessibility is important, what if, for example, the person is used to a different keyboard layout? I would alway…

This is why I bring my split ergonomic keyboard with dvorak firmware to on-site interviews.

Re: Dear Programming Job Applicants (2010)

#96

Post by skrebbel »

twelve40 wrote: post #39

> He reasoned through the problem, wrote the code, it ran perfectly the first time. I hired him. I get the overall sentiment, but come on, "I hired him" sounds like self-absorbed anecdata - so this post is about how to quickly appeal to some manager dude on the interwebs? A more useful metric would be, did this hire survive the first two years, and what do the people around him have to say about his performance. > It…

Bullshit. It'll go like this:

Interviewer: here, a laptop with vi

Applicant: I've never used vi

Interviewer: just hit "i" to be dropped into insert mode, then just navigate with the arrows and use backspace like in any other editor. Ask me when you're ready to save and I'll teach you the magic incantation.

Applicant: types away

If you're not able to code in what's essentially just a test box then that's a useful thing for an interviewer to know. It's a strong indication that you don't fully grasp where the editor stops and the language begins, and unless you're applying for a junior role that's a negative sign.

Re: Dear Programming Job Applicants (2010)

#97

Post by bitL »

hjk05 wrote: post #29
bitL wrote: post #10

- "Hey, I worked at FAANG or better, creating latest super-duper tech you use daily, was featured on TV, got multiple awards etc." - "Let's see if you can do Fizz Buzz!"

Yes, and if your interviewing for a sales position they might ask you to “Sell me this pen”. It’s a trivial task for someone experienced, so why take issue with it?

Junior sales position right out of school.

Re: Dear Programming Job Applicants (2010)

#98

Post by codingdave »

twelve40 wrote: post #39

> He reasoned through the problem, wrote the code, it ran perfectly the first time. I hired him. I get the overall sentiment, but come on, "I hired him" sounds like self-absorbed anecdata - so this post is about how to quickly appeal to some manager dude on the interwebs? A more useful metric would be, did this hire survive the first two years, and what do the people around him have to say about his performance. > It…

> how to quickly appeal to some manager dude

That is a great description of what an interview actually is. While your larger point is valid, you do have to get the job in the first place to have the opportunity to prove they were right to hire you. So you need to appeal to whomever you are talking to.

Re: Dear Programming Job Applicants (2010)

#99

Post by em-bee »

saagarjha wrote: post #81
meuk wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Letting a windows programmer use vi in an interview is just cruel. I mean, I like vim after months of practice, but just exiting vi(m) is notoriously hard for a newbie.

Being able to use vim at a basic level doesn't really take all that long to learn. Sure, there's the memes about vim being impossible to escape, but it's really not that hard to learn how to do so.

the cruel part is that it adds to the candidates nervousness. so i avoid that, but otherwise i agree, especially if it is a modern version where arrow keys and backspace work in insert mode, so one doesn't even need to use command mode to make corrections.

Re: Dear Programming Job Applicants (2010)

#100

Post by je42 »

RealDinosaur wrote: post #60
mettamage wrote: post #37

> I brought in a guy that hadn’t programmed professionally in years, in fact he didn’t even have programming on the first page of his resume. However, he had been practicing while looking for a job and he rocked my programming interview. He reasoned through the problem, wrote the code, it ran perfectly the first time. I hired him. And yet, I have a computer science master with an 8.1 (equivalent to a 4.0 GPA) and com…

I've written tests before, but there ain't no way I'm writing unit tests for a throw away coding exercise that used 4 hours of my time already.

usually for a coding challenge i include in the instructions to add unittests. ;)

since I consider the ability to write well designed unittests as crucial.

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