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UK police secretly downloading content from suspects’ phones (2018)

privacyinternational.org

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Re: UK police secretly downloading content from suspects’ phones (2018)

#91
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes they cannot get anything from a modern iOS device. But they can still (for now) use a warrant to get anything from iCloud. Apple is working on making even that impossible.

It depends on whether it's end-to-end encrypted or not. Unfortunately only some iCloud data is, not all of it (nor is there an option for all of it), but they have been slowly expanding the magic circle there. Health data is a recent addition actually, according to Apple's iCloud security page (HT202303) it is E2E as of iOS 12. Before that it presumably would have been available via warrant, but if someone has all th…

At this point, I'm willing to accept that Apple has an honest intent (to the extent that any corporate entity has any meaningful intent to do anything) to provide reasonable security on its new devices and related cloud systems. This is at least in part because they are reasonably transparent about how far their existing measures go and they don't seem to have a track record of exaggerating claims in this area.

Clearly they could still go significantly further, as the lack of end-to-end encryption for things like iCloud backups of photos demonstrates.

Another black mark against them for now is their persistence in walling off their ecosystem so much that iCloud (or maybe iTunes running on additional Apple equipment) is the only reasonably usable and future-proof method of transferring data between devices. It really should be possible to import and export common types of data like calendars, photos, contacts and notes in standard formats using standard protocols, and it's clearly a deliberate policy not to support this.

Even so, the world of iOS now appears to be in an entirely different class to the Android ecosystem in terms of privacy and data protection. At least with Apple devices, you can (if you're willing to spend an hour or so toggling settings) basically turn off all of the data sharing and remote services if you just want a modern phone with standard communications tools like web and email available. And at least Apple doesn't have an obvious commercial interest in undermining its own devices' privacy safeguards.

Re: UK police secretly downloading content from suspects’ phones (2018)

#92
Are there now available any TrueCrypt-like mountable encrypted filesystems for Android? Last I checked it seemed like it wasn't possible, but that was several years ago.

Even today it seems like there are many apps available that claim to keep photos, docs, etc., safe from prying eyes. But this seems to be accomplished just by putting the files into a location that's hidden from the standard apps, and requiring a password to run the one app that knows where to look. So, useless against something that captures the whole filesystem.

Re: UK police secretly downloading content from suspects’ phones (2018)

#94
post #53
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if we make a world safe from these .000001% events, what do you think that will look like? I can only imagine a dystopian/ Orwellian society where we are all encouraged to report any suspicious behavior and everything becomes a race to the bottom, a Prisoner's Dilemma where I feel pressured to rat out my neighbor for _something_ before he does it to me.

Who's asking everyone to report suspicious behaviour ? You have raised a _strawman_ argument. Automatic surveillance of public property and public spaces is in my opinion necessary for analysis, investigation and prosecution of terrorists. This must be done by career intelligence folks not by amateurs.

It isn't a strawman at all. The sold paranoia see something say something is very real.

Below I have linked real posters and not satire - unless their graphic designers are covertly revolting in protest.

https://p10.secure.hostingprod.com/@spyblog.org.uk/ssl/spook...

Re: UK police secretly downloading content from suspects’ phones (2018)

#95
post #19

When back in the early 00's the UK wanted to introduce a picture ID card, there were huge protests across the country that resulted in the scheme being shelved indefinitely. It took the UK years to even introduce a picture driving license (you might have seen the "counterpart" old driving licenses which were in use until very recently. They were a single A4 sheet with no picture on it). How ironic that despite the co…

> (you might have seen the "counterpart" old driving licenses which were in use until very recently Non-photo UK driving licenses are in fact still legal [0] although they are not now issued. If you need a replacement or update (e.g. on address change) the new license will be the photo version. They are still valid for hire car. If I need photo ID I use my passport. I do not therefore have an official photo-based ide…

> I do not therefore have an official photo-based identity document on me when travelling routinely in the UK.

Neither do I - there's no requirement to carry your driving licence whilst driving.

Re: UK police secretly downloading content from suspects’ phones (2018)

#96

Are there now available any TrueCrypt-like mountable encrypted filesystems for Android? Last I checked it seemed like it wasn't possible, but that was several years ago. Even today it seems like there are many apps available that claim to keep photos, docs, etc., safe from prying eyes. But this seems to be accomplished just by putting the files into a location that's hidden from the standard apps, and requiring a pas…

It looks like you can use EncFS and TrueCrypt now on Android, with a few different apps. But I'm not sure how good the implementation is, or if you need to be rooted.

Re: UK police secretly downloading content from suspects’ phones (2018)

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just safety vs. privacy, it's safety vs. safety: pervasive surveillance can and does make us less safe due to the potential for a future, less benevolent, government to abuse it to oppress politically unpopular groups.

Do you have any proof to backup your empty claim? It may discourage pocket picker at your local market.. when it comes to blowing up King Cross I bet you more survelieance the more incouraging to terror. These folls live for five minute survelliance video of one of their own walking down with backpack across few CCTV cameras on all national News Stations, so yeah I bet you its a one big fat encouragement to them to h…

Did you mean to reply to someone else? My comment is also arguing against pervasive surveillance.

Re: UK police secretly downloading content from suspects’ phones (2018)

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't mean its worth it. There is always a tradeoff and I would rather live in a world where I know I am free from surveillance than a world where I am .000001% safer or criminals are caught 10% faster.

In the grandparent comment’s specific example police stalked and killed a completely innocent man because they thought he looked like one of the bombers from their CCTV tapes

Reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Jean_Charles_de_Menez...

Good god, reading that was horrifying. What a bunch of thugs on that police force. Absolutely disgraceful.

Re: UK police secretly downloading content from suspects’ phones (2018)

#99
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes they cannot get anything from a modern iOS device. But they can still (for now) use a warrant to get anything from iCloud. Apple is working on making even that impossible.

It depends on whether it's end-to-end encrypted or not. Unfortunately only some iCloud data is, not all of it (nor is there an option for all of it), but they have been slowly expanding the magic circle there. Health data is a recent addition actually, according to Apple's iCloud security page (HT202303) it is E2E as of iOS 12. Before that it presumably would have been available via warrant, but if someone has all th…

The option for avoiding iCloud backup is iTunes encrypted backup. iCloud backup is very convenient but also not dangerous.

Re: UK police secretly downloading content from suspects’ phones (2018)

#100
post #80
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well. Strangely I happen to be one of the folks in that .000001%, so I apologize if my opinions have been shaped differently. I lost one of my ex-school mates in an market-place explosion (2005 Delhi bombing). While the London Bombing suspects were identified, all suspects in the Delhi bombing that same year were released due to "lack of evidence". I am completely in favor of surveillance of public property.

> While the London Bombing suspects were identified They were identified. After they’d blown themselves up on trains and a bus. The one person ‘identified’ as it was happening was in fact mistakenly identified and killed by the police. Surveillance only helps in situations like this where the authorities have intelligence upfront. Even then you can argue that regular on-foot surveillance is a more proportionate appro…

> Surveillance only helps in situations like this where the authorities have intelligence upfront.

Binney had the answer.

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