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Startup Lessons, Courtesy of United Airlines’ Crappy Customer Service

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Re: Startup Lessons, Courtesy of United Airlines’ Crappy Customer Service

#91

Post by arethuza »

swombat wrote: post #16

If you would like the European equivalent of this customer experience, I warmly recommend you try out Air France. If you want even worse, try Ryanair. They actually pride themselves on treating their customers like cattle, dumb-ass sheep to be fleeced at every opportunity.

Ryanair's website is truly evil - who would have guessed that "No I don't want insurance" is half way down the list of countries.

However, the flight experience is OK - comparable with your usual charter flight carriers and the value for money is exceptional.

Re: Startup Lessons, Courtesy of United Airlines’ Crappy Customer Service

#92

Post by leelin »

The most tragic goof from the airline's standpoint seems to be the "you may check in online" email, implicitly confirming the 2nd leg was still on.

I'm guessing the moment he booked his flight, a script somewhere inserted two rows into a database, and a daily cron slurped up each one to send the automated emails. So few people miss the first legs these days that they haven't bothered to make the "cancel entire itinerary" cron stop the return leg email from sending.

I still think that complaining to customer service might get him a flight voucher if he plays his cards properly.

Re: Startup Lessons, Courtesy of United Airlines’ Crappy Customer Service

#93

Post by iandanforth »

I want to add my support for the author. I didn't know about this policy before reading his blog and I've been flying for years. I've never missed a flight so this has never come up.

Secondly I think there can't be a more appropriate place to criticize a business than on a business blog. I've had interactions with businesses in high throughput high stress situations that have been great and ones that have been terrible. If your business strives to give good customer service it's valuable to demonstrate your awareness of bad practices and make a public commitment to do better.

Re: Startup Lessons, Courtesy of United Airlines’ Crappy Customer Service

#94

Post by rexreed »

The reason why airlines have this policy of canceling the roundtrip if you miss the outbound flight is because it used to be (maybe it still is) that you'd get a lower cost rate if your itinerary included a Saturday night stay (weekend fare). If you booked the roundtrip to get advantage of the lower fare, but only intended to use the return segment(to travel on a Monday), then you'd get a lower price than if you booked a one-way on Monday.

Also, people would start the ticket from a low-cost city hub so they can take advantage of the cheap return fare.

Pricing probably doesn't work that way anymore, but the policy still exists. Any seasoned traveler should already have experience with this. To avoid the problem, you can call the airlines BEFORE you miss your outbound flight and they will provide options for you if you are nice.

Re: Startup Lessons, Courtesy of United Airlines’ Crappy Customer Service

#95

Post by jmtame »

edw519 wrote: post #83
jmtame wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why would they tell him he could check in on the return flight if this is such a common thing? why not a notification saying "you missed your first flight so we canceled everything. warning: don't come to the airport and try to check in, buy some new tickets instead because that's what people have been doing for 30 years now." the airline screwed up here too, especially if he's someone (like myself) who didn't know a…

this blog is completely justified, and it shows that wepay stands behind its commitment of customer service. It also shows that wepay (through this blog rant) is not saavy in some pretty standard ways of the world. Which is a real big fucking concern for anyone who's thinking about trusting them with their money. OP says it himself with his very first "lesson", "Don’t optimize for the edge-case." Then he violates his…

maybe we just have a disagreement over what's appropriate to put in company blogs. maybe it's safer to stick with simple product updates and policy changes (and it probably is in most cases), but this is the type of stuff i like to see. it shows me there are human beings behind a company and that they're committed to certain values. i enjoy supporting those types of companies, and i know if i have a problem i'll be able to e-mail or call them and they're going to help me out.

i can't remember the last time i've actually read a company blog. i don't read them because they're boring. they usually have nothing worth reading, and i don't consider myself attracted to sensationalist material either.

the fact that it's a trivial mistake in the eyes of experienced travelers can probably go dismissed here because wepay primarily caters to college students and roommates.

Re: Startup Lessons, Courtesy of United Airlines’ Crappy Customer Service

#96

Post by woan »

rdl wrote: post #78
jasonkester wrote: post #59

United in particular amaze me at how little regard they show for customer retention. Last time I flew with them I stood in line as every single customer got into the same fight with them when they sprung their new "$50 extra to check a bag" policy on them with zero notice. I watched a dozen people in a row vow to never fly United again in the span of 20 minutes. Amazing that they can survive except in a landscape whe…

That would be Cathay Pacific, Singapore Airlines, Qatar Airways, Etihad, or to a lesser extent, Emirates or Asiana. It's really just US flagged airlines that are incredibly bad (I've flown several million miles internationally, and aside from Royal Jordanian (which flies to Iraq), Ariana (the Afghan Airline) and Kam Air (the Southwest of Afghanistan), no one approaches US standards of quality. Some of the LCCs in Eur…

The super great service airlines all seem to have much higher average ticket prices (not saying they aren't worth it) and maybe even less labor restrictions...

Re: Startup Lessons, Courtesy of United Airlines’ Crappy Customer Service

#97

Post by Natsu »

edw519 wrote: post #60

...I certainly never take to using WePay’s corporate blog as a pulpit for my attacks. Then don't. Ever. Here's why: It's standard knowledge that your second leg will be canceled if you miss your first leg. It's been that way for 30 years. You have just demonstrated your inability to deal with a standard curve ball. No big deal. As individuals, we all run into that from time to time. You also complained about customer…

> It's standard knowledge that your second leg will be canceled if you miss your first leg. It's been that way for 30 years.

I guess I don't fly enough, because I had no idea. I haven't tried to game their pricing model, either, for that matter.

That said, he and several others here have convinced me to avoid United if at all possible.

Re: Startup Lessons, Courtesy of United Airlines’ Crappy Customer Service

#98

Post by edw519 »

jmtame wrote: post #95
edw519 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this blog is completely justified, and it shows that wepay stands behind its commitment of customer service. It also shows that wepay (through this blog rant) is not saavy in some pretty standard ways of the world. Which is a real big fucking concern for anyone who's thinking about trusting them with their money. OP says it himself with his very first "lesson", "Don’t optimize for the edge-case." Then he violates his…

maybe we just have a disagreement over what's appropriate to put in company blogs. maybe it's safer to stick with simple product updates and policy changes (and it probably is in most cases), but this is the type of stuff i like to see. it shows me there are human beings behind a company and that they're committed to certain values. i enjoy supporting those types of companies, and i know if i have a problem i'll be a…

wepay primarily caters to college students and roommates

Now.

This is a great idea that, if executed properly, can be so much more. I guess that's why I was so concerned with what I saw as negative corporate blog energy.

Re: Startup Lessons, Courtesy of United Airlines’ Crappy Customer Service

#99

Post by rdl »

woan wrote: post #96
rdl wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be Cathay Pacific, Singapore Airlines, Qatar Airways, Etihad, or to a lesser extent, Emirates or Asiana. It's really just US flagged airlines that are incredibly bad (I've flown several million miles internationally, and aside from Royal Jordanian (which flies to Iraq), Ariana (the Afghan Airline) and Kam Air (the Southwest of Afghanistan), no one approaches US standards of quality. Some of the LCCs in Eur…

The super great service airlines all seem to have much higher average ticket prices (not saying they aren't worth it) and maybe even less labor restrictions...

CX and SQ are a bit pricey (although SQ is pricey in retail with lots of 30-50% corporate discounts, their main market).

QR, EY, EK are actually VERY price competitive on their routes. They're mainly transit airlines, but to fly from e.g. random US to Australia, it's probably cheaper to go via the middle east on one of those carriers vs. over the Pacific. There are a lot of political concerns in places like Canada that the middle eastern airlines are dropping prices so low on profitable long-haul routes that the national flag carriers can't compete.

As to why they are better, it's probably that they focus on the inherently profitable long haul high capacity high frequency market, have little or no "legacy" costs (US carriers paying pensions and healthcare for retirees), supportive governments (for things like expanding their hub/transit airports to accommodate more flights). Allegedly they are not massively subsidized by the foreign governments.

Re: Startup Lessons, Courtesy of United Airlines’ Crappy Customer Service

#100

Post by btilly »

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #69
edw519 wrote: post #60

...I certainly never take to using WePay’s corporate blog as a pulpit for my attacks. Then don't. Ever. Here's why: It's standard knowledge that your second leg will be canceled if you miss your first leg. It's been that way for 30 years. You have just demonstrated your inability to deal with a standard curve ball. No big deal. As individuals, we all run into that from time to time. You also complained about customer…

> It's standard knowledge that your second leg will be canceled if you miss your first leg. It's been that way for 30 years. Really? This is the first time I've ever heard this. > But your mistake was using your company blog, unintentionally transferring your ineptness to your company I think it makes WePay seem human. Furthermore, whether or not it's true, this blog post makes me feel like WePay is saying 'we value…

Really? This is the first time I've ever heard this.

Really. It also ties in to why the airlines want you to show proof of who you are.

Back before they did both of these it was common for people to buy round trips and sell the legs individually for well below what the airline was willing to sell them for.

Why, you ask? The fundamental problem is that airline pricing is insanely complicated. The principle is simple, put a plane in the air, fill it with passengers, try to make a profit. The problem is that there are huge fixed costs to having the flight (time on airplane, fuel, employees, airport fees) and much lower variable costs (incremental cost of baggage, incremental fuel). Only a small fraction of people are willing to pay their share of the true cost of the flight. Some of those are willing to pay much more. Most are willing to pay less than their share of the total costs (not worth having the flight for them) but more than the marginal cost (worth letting them on the flight).

The result is that airline pricing becomes all about pushing people who are able to pay more into actually paying more, while allowing people who are not willing to pay more to get on cheaply. For instance if someone does a round trip and has a layover that includes a weekend, that's probably not a business trip and so they can pay less. Someone who flies somewhere then flies back the next day is probably on a business trip and can be charged more.

One way trips are generally bought by someone who is going A to B to C ... because those are business stops. People flying on business are generally willing to charge more, so airlines happily charge them more.

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