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EU Countries Back Copyright Reforms Aimed at Google, Facebook

reuters.com

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Re: EU Countries Back Copyright Reforms Aimed at Google, Facebook

#91

Post by sonnyblarney »

porpoisely wrote: post #16

This is what I despise about "news". If this was china or russia or venezuela, etc, the headline would be "China tightens grip on their people" or "International community concerned as China becomes more authoritarian" or "Pro freedom activists protest against China's draconian censorship". It would be spun as something more ominous than "reform". But reuters being reuters and also a major supporter of censorship, of…

This is not true, and the headlines are not misrepresentations.

This is not an authoritarian move by the EU.

It's actually quite fair, or a reasonable premise to posit that neither you nor Google have the right to publish copyrighted material.

They are enacting laws for basic copyright protections - which seem wild only due to the fact that the web has been a 'wild west' since inception and it's what we are used to.

I'm against this law, but there are very real arguments for this.

The arguments against the law are actually more pragmatic than anything, i.e. small sites will have trouble complying and it could make information more difficult to access.

The headline is fine.

Re: EU Countries Back Copyright Reforms Aimed at Google, Facebook

#92

Post by pojzon »

microcolonel wrote: post #40
DanTheManPR wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems to me like it will have exactly the opposite intended effect, that the large players are the only ones who will be able to operate under this new regulatory burden.

> ...the large players are the only ones who will be able to operate under this new regulatory burden. And even YouTube is pretty sure they'll struggle to comply, despite having the most sophisticated and error-resistant rights management system on the market.

Beside ML and AI hugely based on farms in Indonesia watching everything reported... Its proven that its impossible to track whole content of ytb because simply it is "too much of data and ppl always try to screw over your detection system"

Re: EU Countries Back Copyright Reforms Aimed at Google, Facebook

#93

Post by kakarot »

porpoisely wrote: post #16

This is what I despise about "news". If this was china or russia or venezuela, etc, the headline would be "China tightens grip on their people" or "International community concerned as China becomes more authoritarian" or "Pro freedom activists protest against China's draconian censorship". It would be spun as something more ominous than "reform". But reuters being reuters and also a major supporter of censorship, of…

The first issue is that this is called a "Copyright" reform. The language is loaded from the start and discussion can never get off on the right foot.

https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/misinterpreting-copyright.en....

https://www.gnu.org/licenses/copyleft.en.html

Re: EU Countries Back Copyright Reforms Aimed at Google, Facebook

#94

Post by justicezyx »

duxup wrote: post #71
billfruit wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think his point is not about comparison, but of the media putting a 'spin' on the way a news item is presented to make it more in line with their own entrenched positions, and the ethicality of their doing it. Even considering the huge uproar about fake news, etc that the media is crying hoarse over, they seem reluctant to reform their own practices like reductive and sensationalist head line writing, and change to…

I'm not sure there is automatically "spin", because of the difference. My point being those government actions are very much in different contexts and might deserve different descriptions.

In terms of the areas of what the OP mentioned, there is no difference.

Re: EU Countries Back Copyright Reforms Aimed at Google, Facebook

#95

Post by TeMPOraL »

wbxrs wrote: post #74
TeMPOraL wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This and the "insult the president" sound both like cases of the offender being an asshole. I mean, there is a difference between criticizing an idea - or a person - and being purposefully insulting about it. Surely there is a way to draw a line in between that preserves free and civilized discourse.

It is not the job of the government to preserve "civilised discourse". It is a government, not the moderator of an Internet forum. I must be able to say whatever I want, and you must be able to ignore me or openly disagree.

It absolutely is the job of the government to regulate interactions between its citizens. That's literally why people let them exist. We're arguing here about extent of that regulation.

No sane government will prevent you from generally moving around. But try to run around the town naked, and see how long it'll take before you get in trouble. Being naked is a form of expression too - one that's almost universally frowned upon when not confined to private spaces in presence of adults only.

(Also, no reasonable government is tone-policing discourse in general. Some governments choose to demand respectful behavior towards the institution of government, including in particular towards officials while holding office. That's a far cry from being oppressive or constraining the marketplace of ideas.)

Re: EU Countries Back Copyright Reforms Aimed at Google, Facebook

#96

Post by oytis »

duxup wrote: post #71
billfruit wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think his point is not about comparison, but of the media putting a 'spin' on the way a news item is presented to make it more in line with their own entrenched positions, and the ethicality of their doing it. Even considering the huge uproar about fake news, etc that the media is crying hoarse over, they seem reluctant to reform their own practices like reductive and sensationalist head line writing, and change to…

I'm not sure there is automatically "spin", because of the difference. My point being those government actions are very much in different contexts and might deserve different descriptions.

How many such laws need to be passed before we can say that the context has changed?

Re: EU Countries Back Copyright Reforms Aimed at Google, Facebook

#97

Post by sonnyblarney »

strictnein wrote: post #69
flexie wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't frame this as a free speech issue. Freedom of speech is as protected in the EU as it is in the US, possibly more. Freedom of speech in Europe is not just an EU question, but also - and mainly - up to constitutions and legislation of the member states. So of course it varies. But there is less surveillance in Europe on what citizens say online, European media is less centralized than American, there are more par…

Nothing you've posted is accurate or true. Like, literally nothing. There won't be "10 different versions" of these filters on Github for free. How do you even imagine that will work? There will need to be a constantly updated and massive database of signatures for all copyrighted materials. That's not something that can be done for free and you can guarantee it will have a significant price tag attached Free speech…

Even though you are correct, this issue is still not a matter of free speech.

We've had copyright protections for some time, they're now being enforced.

I don't agree with it, but neither this is not about free speech or 'media spin' on the story.

Re: EU Countries Back Copyright Reforms Aimed at Google, Facebook

#98

Post by duxup »

justicezyx wrote: post #94
duxup wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure there is automatically "spin", because of the difference. My point being those government actions are very much in different contexts and might deserve different descriptions.

In terms of the areas of what the OP mentioned, there is no difference.

My point being there is more context than just what he OP mentioned.

Re: EU Countries Back Copyright Reforms Aimed at Google, Facebook

#99

Post by duxup »

oytis wrote: post #96
duxup wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure there is automatically "spin", because of the difference. My point being those government actions are very much in different contexts and might deserve different descriptions.

How many such laws need to be passed before we can say that the context has changed?

Well some of the context I mentioned was a democratic government, free press, independent courts, etc. So that would have to change.

Re: EU Countries Back Copyright Reforms Aimed at Google, Facebook

#100

Post by ThePawnBreak »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #72
wbxrs wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Don't frame this as a free speech issue. Freedom of speech is as protected in the EU as it is in the US, possibly more. Yeah, no. This (blasphemy laws) would be unthinkable in the US: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/its-not-fr...

This and the "insult the president" sound both like cases of the offender being an asshole. I mean, there is a difference between criticizing an idea - or a person - and being purposefully insulting about it. Surely there is a way to draw a line in between that preserves free and civilized discourse.

> This and the "insult the president" sound both like cases of the offender being an asshole.

I fully agree. I think we should start jailing all the people who called Trump an idiot or a racist. That's no way to talk about the President!

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