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Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

reuters.com

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Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#91

Post by benj111 »

makomk wrote: post #81
benj111 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU (minus Britain) are united. Its just Britain that cant agree with itself.

If there's one thing about Brexit that Britain can agree on, it's that the deal that's being offered by the EU is awful. It lead to the largest House of Commons defeat for a key government bill in history, and it polls terribly with pretty much everyone. That's why the EU (and most of the British press) have been using the fact that May managed to trade some bad parts of their proposal with differently bad replacemen…

Well a deal halfway between 2 diametrically opposed view points is never going to please anyone. I think at the moment, its an exercise in moving round the overton window, perhaps at the moment we need a second window though.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#92

Post by spiritcat »

AsyncAwait wrote: post #83
danra wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I hope we stop buying in. When a politician tells us a country is evil, we need to start asking for receipts. Well, there’s the minor issue of Iran’s totalitarian regime consistently announcing their intent to destroy Israel and devestate the U.S.A, and taking actual steps to support the same. I am Israeli and completely left-wing by the way, and believe there are many steps both Israel and the U.S. could take to m…

[flagged]

Thank you Mr. European, we'll continue to greatly consider and internalize your thoughts on what and when it is appropriate for Israelis act in self defense.

Now get fucked.

(not Israeli, but yes Jewish)

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#93

Post by AsyncAwait »

zozbot123 wrote: post #7

Wouldn't want to lose access to that oil... who cares about preserving the liberal order and not giving an incentive to states to turn rogue? But hey, President Trump is thinking about doing the same thing wrt. the Ukraine, so who am I to complain? Maybe two wrongs can make a right.

You do realize that the U.S. and Trump especially is super buddy, buddy with the Saudis and Emiratis, who are almost unquestionably worse, right?

You also do realize that the U.S. supports 75% of the world's dictatorships, right? You do realize that the U.S./U.K. orchestrated a coup against the democratically elected leader of Iran, right?

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#94

Post by doanguyen »

AsyncAwait wrote: post #83
danra wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I hope we stop buying in. When a politician tells us a country is evil, we need to start asking for receipts. Well, there’s the minor issue of Iran’s totalitarian regime consistently announcing their intent to destroy Israel and devestate the U.S.A, and taking actual steps to support the same. I am Israeli and completely left-wing by the way, and believe there are many steps both Israel and the U.S. could take to m…

[flagged]

The giant elephant in the room, I guess

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#95

Post by anonu »

mc32 wrote: post #37
anonu wrote: post #32

As America steps back from the world stage, we will see more alliances being forged that exclude the USA. These plans of dissociation have been in motion for some time now. I think two ruinous wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have caused a shift in American foreign policy that we are now starting to see play out more frequently. This will continue for many decades.

Perhaps, but this is orthogonal to that. This is to sidestep US sanctions. The traditional (not current) left was for disengagement (WTO protests, Iraq protests), it’s strange to see the left now argue for intervention and more internationalism and intervention and hegemony.

In the past, US allies like Germany, France, Britain, would never dream of crossing the US. A trade agreement that effectively promotes the Euro to sidestep the USD is Europe thumbing its nose at the US.

Yes, on the face of it, this is about sidestepping sanctions. But the implications of doing so go far deeper. The US posture today basically makes the US weaker in the long run.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#96

Post by krona »

morrbo wrote: post #55
rusk wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In terms of trade, how is it exactly they can complement each other? The geography is a bit of an issue for actual physical goods, and I'm not sure what the UK produces that the US needs. Luxury cars maybe, but IIRC most of these marques aren't even owned by the UK any more, except for perhaps the high end. Cheap Bentley's for American oligarchs? Services, maybe - but again most of the core banking will move away fro…

You've misunderstood. Practically speaking, the UK needs to buy shit, the US needs to sell shit. UK has effectively blocked out 1/3 of the world (Europe) from a trade deal because we'd never get one as good as the current free trade agreement with the EU. Our politicians won't be stupid enough to say "we've left the EU, but have made a worse deal with Europe than we had before". Similarly EU won't make a deal with th…

chlorinated chicken/steroid injected beef

Such things would be clearly labelled and no worse than the US standard. If consumers want it, they will buy it. If they don't, they won't.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#97

Post by AsyncAwait »

oriol11 wrote: post #14

[flagged]

You seem to be propagandized out of your mind.

The current Iranian regime is there BECAUSE of Western meddling, it would not exist otherwise. You also need to realize that the Gulf states sponsor terrorism to a larger degree and are our allies, so it's not about that.

The U.S. supports 75% of the world's dictatorships.

It simply wants control of Iran's natural resources, same goes for Venezuela, where the opposition isn't really any more popular than Maduro is and also rather violent.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#98

Post by InitialLastName »

cletus wrote: post #82
nkozyra wrote: post #5

Good. I don't know how much longer Americans are going to buy the boogiemen we keep getting fed. Sovereign nations under the the U.S.' thumb, not being able to control their own destiny only works so long as we're complacent. I sense we're growing tired of war for war's sake, leery of ideological battles built for future blowback down the road. We see enough people profiting from these wars to wonder how much global…

This is going to be the really unfortunate legacy of Trump: disastrous foreign policy and the loss of soft power. 1. Denial of Russia's meddling in US election because it runs counter to Trump's ego and he had a weird soft spot for autocrats. 2. The baseless termination of the Iran nuclear Accord as essentially a capitulation to Israel and Israeli interests. There was no violation of the agreement. The best the admin…

Let's keep this straight:

Saudi Arabia is an ally because, and for as long as, they happily do their oil business in USD, which does a lot to underpin the USD as a driver in the global economy as a whole.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#99

Post by AsyncAwait »

spiritcat wrote: post #92
AsyncAwait wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Thank you Mr. European, we'll continue to greatly consider and internalize your thoughts on what and when it is appropriate for Israelis act in self defense. Now get fucked. (not Israeli, but yes Jewish)

> for Israelis act in self defense

Are other people/nations also allowed to 'act in self defense', or is it only Israel?

> Now get fucked.

Well, I guess you won the argument.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#100

Post by louisswiss »

makomk wrote: post #81
benj111 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU (minus Britain) are united. Its just Britain that cant agree with itself.

If there's one thing about Brexit that Britain can agree on, it's that the deal that's being offered by the EU is awful. It lead to the largest House of Commons defeat for a key government bill in history, and it polls terribly with pretty much everyone. That's why the EU (and most of the British press) have been using the fact that May managed to trade some bad parts of their proposal with differently bad replacemen…

A helpful reminder that Britain leaving the EU and Britain getting a 'deal' with the EU are two separate (but related) events.

Britain triggered Article 50 and decided to leave the EU. There's no deal necessary. From the EU's point of view (and a legal one), this isn't a negotiation, just a (sometimes less clearly defined) bureaucratic procedure.

There is of course the question of what Britain's relationship to the EU will look like after Brexit. And it is the EU's responsibility to negotiate a deal which makes that relationship as beneficial for EU member states as possible.

It's simply not their job to care about Britain any more.

Another point worth remembering is that several EU countries don't really have a significant trading relationship with Britain. Imagine if Britain had remained in the EU and Austria was negotiating a 'Brexit-style' deal, for example. How interested would Britain really be in whether that deal was good or bad?

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