The Fax Is Not Yet Obsolete • Hacker News Board

Re: The Fax Is Not Yet Obsolete

#91

Post by tim333 » Mon, Nov 19, 2018, 4:24 PM UTC

alex_young wrote: post #59

mrweasel wrote: post #53

If someone was to build a device that could clamp on to the phone line and listen for incoming faxes and copy the signal and sent it of to a remote server, would that force us to rethink the use of faxes? Sadly I think the answer is no. One argument that could be made for the fax is the lack of availability. Some government office in Denmark have been known to email sensitive information to wrong email addresses, bec…

You can man in the middle a fax by walking into a phone closet a mile away from either party. Same thing with a voice call. Don't send anything you don't want to post publicly via fax people.

I realise it's technically possible but are there any documented instances of someone doing that?

Re: The Fax Is Not Yet Obsolete

#92

Post by tim333 » Mon, Nov 19, 2018, 4:34 PM UTC

Zak wrote: post #50

metildaa wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fax has a carve out in PCI & HIPPA compliance, and there is a huge existing momentum behind continuing to use fax. Alternatives for actually secure document transmission boil down to difficult to use private messaging/"secure" email systems (that only work in their walled garden). Many in the general public get frustrated with these walled gardens, as it is another login & interface to remember, and their credit unio…

> Alternatives for actually secure document transmission boil down to difficult to use private messaging/"secure" email systems (that only work in their walled garden). Oh bloody hell. Begin rant. We've had PGP for 27 years. Twenty seven years. Since 1991. Why the hell haven't we, the tech community, gotten the rest of the world to use it? I think the only person I've had a PGP-encrypted email exchange with is my mot…

I was just reading '15 reasons not to start using PGP' https://secushare.org/PGP and it's quite impressive the number of issues I never would have thought of.

Re: The Fax Is Not Yet Obsolete

#93

Post by tim333 » Mon, Nov 19, 2018, 4:40 PM UTC

Zak wrote: post #78

qrbLPHiKpiux wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Key strokes required. Everyone taps today. Tapping input on a device is horribly inefficient.

This is one of several reasons about 1998 would have been the right time to popularize it, not 2018.

Though a plus of 2018 is people are being forced to sort out public and private keys if they want to muck about with cryptocurrency.

Re: The Fax Is Not Yet Obsolete

#94

Post by dejaime » Mon, Nov 19, 2018, 5:25 PM UTC

And I bet they use Microsoft Windows.

Re: The Fax Is Not Yet Obsolete

#95

Post by tim333 » Mon, Nov 19, 2018, 5:46 PM UTC

VSpike wrote: post #71

It makes me wonder what other legacy telecom systems are still in use somewhere. Are there any public X25 networks still in use? What about telex? Telex over HF? Inmarsat C? Any X400 gateways still running? Can you still send a UUCP mail? This kind of digital archaeology has a strange fascination to it.

Radioteletype (RTTY) started around 1922 and is still going https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioteletype

Re: The Fax Is Not Yet Obsolete

#96

Post by tomjen3 » Mon, Nov 19, 2018, 6:56 PM UTC

cknight wrote: post #67

askvictor wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how this squares with the NBN, given that, once activated, the traditional phone line ceases to exist, and you use VoIP instead. And that the POTS will be entirely deactivated (in theory) once rollout is complete.

All our fax machines are already using Cisco ATAs to connect to our VoIP system anyway. Only problem I've ever had with that aspect was a dud ATA. I know many practices use eFax though, even though it uses email and hence is against accreditation standards. Small one- or two-practitioner clinics don't have the means to trudge through the RACGP's information security standards like we do. I did trial a local Australia…

Would a physical fax machine that saved the incoming faxes as a searchable PDF on a network drive make sense? It could literally just have a folder you put things in and then you could select the recipient on some webmanager.

Re: The Fax Is Not Yet Obsolete

#97

Post by Spivak » Mon, Nov 19, 2018, 6:58 PM UTC

paulie_a wrote: post #90

alkonaut wrote: post #83

Don't forget that in the US utility bills are still often used as proof of living address. signatures are compared in some cases of identity verification (e.g. voting). Paper checks are still used as means of payment, even in retail. It's hardly surprising that fax machines are still used.

On the plus side I have noticed an upward trend to not allowing checks at retail locations.

Seems silly not to when they just end up being slightly more cumbersome to use debit cards. Like it's not that bad in the grand scheme of things.

Re: The Fax Is Not Yet Obsolete

#98

Post by someguydave » Mon, Nov 19, 2018, 7:16 PM UTC

Zak wrote: post #50

metildaa wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fax has a carve out in PCI & HIPPA compliance, and there is a huge existing momentum behind continuing to use fax. Alternatives for actually secure document transmission boil down to difficult to use private messaging/"secure" email systems (that only work in their walled garden). Many in the general public get frustrated with these walled gardens, as it is another login & interface to remember, and their credit unio…

> Alternatives for actually secure document transmission boil down to difficult to use private messaging/"secure" email systems (that only work in their walled garden). Oh bloody hell. Begin rant. We've had PGP for 27 years. Twenty seven years. Since 1991. Why the hell haven't we, the tech community, gotten the rest of the world to use it? I think the only person I've had a PGP-encrypted email exchange with is my mot…

>why nobody uses pgp?

Well, the simple answer is that it's really only in the interest of the end-user and not in the interest of the telecom firms, platforms, or governments intermediating end-users.

Re: The Fax Is Not Yet Obsolete

#99

Post by tomjen3 » Mon, Nov 19, 2018, 7:24 PM UTC

VSpike wrote: post #71

It makes me wonder what other legacy telecom systems are still in use somewhere. Are there any public X25 networks still in use? What about telex? Telex over HF? Inmarsat C? Any X400 gateways still running? Can you still send a UUCP mail? This kind of digital archaeology has a strange fascination to it.

Technically all that is required for UUCP is a phone connection between two computers and the willingness to run it.

There are a bunch of nostalgia computer geeks on youtube, but I haven't seen any of them focus on unix yet. Could be fun though.

Re: The Fax Is Not Yet Obsolete

#100

Post by paulie_a » Mon, Nov 19, 2018, 7:37 PM UTC

Spivak wrote: post #97

paulie_a wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the plus side I have noticed an upward trend to not allowing checks at retail locations.

Seems silly not to when they just end up being slightly more cumbersome to use debit cards. Like it's not that bad in the grand scheme of things.

It is substantially better per transaction. Insert card, wait a few seconds, type pin. Vs fumble for check book, find a pen, write all the details and sign it, then because most business have fraud issues with checks. run it through a third party processing to verify the check is valid. I'm guessing debit vs check is probably at least 3 times longer for check. Also the merchant has to pay the additional fees that are higher vs debit.