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The War Inside 7-Eleven

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Re: The War Inside 7-Eleven

#91

Post by Aloha »

ryandrake wrote: post #44
zzzcpan wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think it failed? I imagine failure of the war on drugs would be a revolution. That didn't happen, so the war on drugs didn't fail. War on drugs was never about drugs.

Good point. The War on Drugs stated goal of getting rid of an arbitrary subset of drugs and their users failed. The real goal, oppression and mass-incarceration of dark skinned and poor people, was a pretty resounding success. They’ve at least dropped the pretext with the War on Immigrants. The stated goal is the real goal: oppression, deportation and mass-incarceration of (primarily dark skinned and poor) foreigners…

It's not really targeting poor people, or dark skinned people - it's targeting people that the elites of the time saw as 'morally deficient' - most malum prohibitum laws target moral perceptions of moral deficiency - or try to preserve notions of a static society.

Re: The War Inside 7-Eleven

#92

Post by jnbiche »

will_brown wrote: post #70
jnbiche wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of the article is that a unusually high number of businesses targeted for these actions happened to be critiques of corporate 7-Eleven, or engaged in lawsuits. And yes, I would worry likewise if it were taxes used as the underlying cause for these kinds of raids. Again, I'm explicitly not calling this "fascism". I said "emblematic of fascism". I actually don't think we've descended into fascism yet. But as…

You could call it “facisism” but that just creates more mudslinging...for example does it help by name calling the franchisees “outlaws” or “criminal enterprises”. It’s ugly behavior for a franchisor to give tips to the federal government about its franchisees illegally hiring undocumented workers...but that’s what happens when you litigate with unclean hands, the otherside will expose you. The Franchisor would be ju…

> You could call it “facisism” but that just creates more mudslinging...for example does it help by name calling the franchisees “outlaws” or “criminal enterprises”.

I'm not really concerned about offending people by using the term "fascism". And it's hardly about the issue alone, or this issue even playing a significant part in my interpretation of where we are with respect to history. It's the entire zeitgeist of the last 10 years that have got me worried, and particularly the past 2 years. If you're at all familiar with interwar European history, then you've probably had at least a few shivers of recognition over the past 2-3 years of that epoch.

I mean, by God I hope I'm wrong, and I hope people will look back at my comments from this time and laugh, "what a paranoid idiot".

But I don't think I'm wrong. We're at a dangerous point in time. Things could go real bad, real fast.

Re: The War Inside 7-Eleven

#93

Post by paulie_a »

Sir_Vival wrote: post #89
moorhosj wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Immigration is at generationally low levels, I don’t see how you could blame it for lack of wage increases. What about the stagnant minimum wage, record corporate profits or union busting; might they play a role? “American society” and “our values” are by-products of immigration, how would more immigrants ruin that?

I'll give you a firm example. I'm close to a town of 20,000 in rural Minnesota, and the biggest employer is a well known turkey company. Their plants used to be staffed with primarily native (and being in Minnesota, white) people. It was menial, hard labor but it paid well because of that. By the 90s the plant was primarily staffed by illegal Mexican immigrants, and now it's almost entirely Somalians. The jobs are re…

Why would the 15 an hour office workers care? And quite frankly if that makes them unhappy, they are free to find employment elsewhere. They were clearly fine with the pay previously, why should it matter what someone else is making. That just reaks of elitism

Re: The War Inside 7-Eleven

#94

Post by rayiner »

Aloha wrote: post #90
camgunz wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you drawing a comparison between what the US did to Native Americans and what immigrants might do to us? That is such a dangerous, slanderous, ignorant comment that I really have to question your motives.

Is it? Our ancestors tried to annihilate natives in almost totality (physically first, then just culturally) - why is it a shock that some Americans would be afraid of the same thing happening to us? I mean one of the hallmarks of American culture is subsuming the culture of the newly arrived into our own - it not unconscionable to think that some Americans think all peoples/cultures have that same impulse. I'm gener…

As an immigrant myself, that is certainly what my family thought they were signing up for when they came here. Indeed, we left Bangladesh precisely because it was turning away from western culture and values.

I think, for the most part, immigrants today feel that way too. (There is evidence that Spanish speaking immigrants are taking up English faster than German speaking immigrants did). What scares me are the (I think well meaning but misguided) liberals who deny that assimilation is imperative.

Re: The War Inside 7-Eleven

#95

Post by rayiner »

briandear wrote: post #62
esotericn wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US was founded on immigration. > Can't let everyone in. Why not?

Imagine if the entire population of Bangladesh were suddenly added to the state of California. You’d quickly become the third world because no country could handle that sort of influx. Just the act of building enough schools would bankrupt the state. Not to mention any other social services — and the only benefit to the country initially would be simply millions of unskilled workers — which would drive wages to near…

This should not be down voted. I am from Bangladesh. You’re leaving out the fact that your hypothetical would also destroy our social fabric. Fully 1/3 of the population of the country believes that I should be executed for leaving Islam: http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religi.... That makes Bangladesh very moderate compared to say Pakistan where that number is 2/3.

Re: The War Inside 7-Eleven

#96

Post by Aloha »

rayiner wrote: post #94
Aloha wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it? Our ancestors tried to annihilate natives in almost totality (physically first, then just culturally) - why is it a shock that some Americans would be afraid of the same thing happening to us? I mean one of the hallmarks of American culture is subsuming the culture of the newly arrived into our own - it not unconscionable to think that some Americans think all peoples/cultures have that same impulse. I'm gener…

As an immigrant myself, that is certainly what my family thought they were signing up for when they came here. Indeed, we left Bangladesh precisely because it was turning away from western culture and values. I think, for the most part, immigrants today feel that way too. (There is evidence that Spanish speaking immigrants are taking up English faster than German speaking immigrants did). What scares me are the (I th…

I guess they assume that assimilation is bad, and is causing some cultural havoc - Whereas you and I both feel that assimilation is an imperative, While the newly arrived have historically wanted to do everything they can to be american, some old fashioned and/or non-americas values will always remain for them - they didnt grow up fully immersed in our culture. In any case assimilation is what will happen, with it mostly locked in by the first native born generation, and fully locked in by the second native born generation.

I'm glad you and your family are here, adding to our rich tapestry of culture and experiences.

Re: The War Inside 7-Eleven

#97

Post by scarface74 »

bluGill wrote: post #59
lotsofpulp wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always assumed franchised businesses weren't owned by the brand that was franchising. Sounds like a terrible deal for the franchisee if all they're doing is renting a license to operate a business and not gaining any equity. I thought the whole point was so that the could work and gain a bit of equity in their business while using the marketing and quality assurance of the brand they franchise.

That should be the idea, but the brand has requirements. When you go to a McDonalds and order a burger you know what it will taste like. The reason you know that is McDonald's requires all franchises to do quality control. I don't know the exact arrangement, but probably the franchise is not allowed to source their raw materials elsewhere. If a McDonald's burger doesn't taste right they will take action up to taking…

While there is risk, if you buy a franchise and work hard it is a path to a nice life. You won't become richest person in the world, but you should be able to get to upper middle class. The first 30 years are mostly paying the bank though, so be prepared for a long term investment (but after 30 years you can sell your franchise and get the equity back - enough to retire on).

This doesn’t sound appealing to me. How much time do most franchise owners spend in the store themselves over the 30 years because they don’t want to pay employees? (That sounded harsh wasn’t meant to).

Say you’re a first generation immigrant, I understand why you would do that for your family but would you ever want that for your kids or would you just send them to college to do almost anything else?

Re: The War Inside 7-Eleven

#98

Post by bluGill »

scarface74 wrote: post #97
bluGill wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That should be the idea, but the brand has requirements. When you go to a McDonalds and order a burger you know what it will taste like. The reason you know that is McDonald's requires all franchises to do quality control. I don't know the exact arrangement, but probably the franchise is not allowed to source their raw materials elsewhere. If a McDonald's burger doesn't taste right they will take action up to taking…

While there is risk, if you buy a franchise and work hard it is a path to a nice life. You won't become richest person in the world, but you should be able to get to upper middle class. The first 30 years are mostly paying the bank though, so be prepared for a long term investment (but after 30 years you can sell your franchise and get the equity back - enough to retire on). This doesn’t sound appealing to me. How mu…

Depends on the franchise and the manager. A gas station has different economics from a restaurant. Generally you need to spend more time doing book work than you expect to be successful, and not having an employee to work while you are in the office makes that part take longer.

When first starting you generally have to work long hours, but after a few years you get better. If you are good at business, you can own 6 franchises and pull in $200k + per year working 40 hours a week. However other franchises do not really allow you do own more than one, it is entirely possible that you are buying a $60/year job working 50 hour weeks (this is a great deal for immigrants). These numbers assume you are good at the business side and the franchise is one of the good ones that wants you to succeed. If either of those fail you take the losses.

Re: The War Inside 7-Eleven

#99

Post by Latteland »

lostmsu wrote: post #42
mabbo wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree with you, I also feel that 7-Eleven Corporate has taken the wrong approach to this. They've made it "me vs you" rather than "us vs the problem". They're pushing the franchisees in aggressive ways to extract more money out of them to start and then hiring a police force to spy on them. Now it sounds like they're sending out ICE against anyone who criticizes them, even those not breaking the law. That's n…

> Now it sounds like they're sending out ICE against anyone who criticizes them, even those not breaking the law. I guess the article's author were successful in fooling readers. Nowhere in the article does it say that happened ever. Only that rumors about that became widespread (now even more with this article).

The article strongly suggests that is what is happening though. If 7-11 was really worried about it, they'd send them to every 7-11. They don't want to do that because it would make everyone mad, and I bet they don't do it to the franchises they own.

Re: The War Inside 7-Eleven

#100

Post by Latteland »

Sir_Vival wrote: post #89
moorhosj wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Immigration is at generationally low levels, I don’t see how you could blame it for lack of wage increases. What about the stagnant minimum wage, record corporate profits or union busting; might they play a role? “American society” and “our values” are by-products of immigration, how would more immigrants ruin that?

I'll give you a firm example. I'm close to a town of 20,000 in rural Minnesota, and the biggest employer is a well known turkey company. Their plants used to be staffed with primarily native (and being in Minnesota, white) people. It was menial, hard labor but it paid well because of that. By the 90s the plant was primarily staffed by illegal Mexican immigrants, and now it's almost entirely Somalians. The jobs are re…

Except the problem with that story is that immigrantion is apparently lower now than ever, and the biggest problem is that many americans strongly prefer not to do that kind of work.
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