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Linux 4.19

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Re: Linux 4.19

#91

Post by rvense »

vfclists wrote: post #77
metildaa wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CoC being a political document is expected, it is laying the boundaries that define acceptable behavior, an inherently political task. On that ssamw tangent, the GPL series of license is inherently political. I personally like the political ideology espoused, but some do not despite how other licenses leave these developers with many users and proprietary forks, buf no added code, docs or community.

This old GPL hoary chestnut comes up again and again. The GPL is not a political document. It is an economic document that aims to give end users the right to modify their equipment. Virtually any one who owns a fully mechanical device has access to its workings and with the necessary tools and knowledge (which can be hired or bought) can make changes and improvements to the device. If you own an old Mercedes, Ford,…

It's about power. Who can do what. It's political.

Re: Linux 4.19

#92

Post by danharaj »

vfclists wrote: post #77
metildaa wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CoC being a political document is expected, it is laying the boundaries that define acceptable behavior, an inherently political task. On that ssamw tangent, the GPL series of license is inherently political. I personally like the political ideology espoused, but some do not despite how other licenses leave these developers with many users and proprietary forks, buf no added code, docs or community.

This old GPL hoary chestnut comes up again and again. The GPL is not a political document. It is an economic document that aims to give end users the right to modify their equipment. Virtually any one who owns a fully mechanical device has access to its workings and with the necessary tools and knowledge (which can be hired or bought) can make changes and improvements to the device. If you own an old Mercedes, Ford,…

> It only becomes political when there is the desire to use the legislative and judicial systems to subvert end users ability to enjoy, enhance and repair the products they have bought.

I mean, even if one were to accept all your promises, this is exactly the world we live in, so the GPL is indeed political. You can put curtains up between Economy and Politics if you want. I guess.

Re: Linux 4.19

#93

Post by patrickg_zill »

jf- wrote: post #29

I’m seeing a lot of people stating that they’re worried about this code of conduct. Since I’ve not read it or any commentary about it, can someone tell me why it’s so worrying? Is there a sincere fear that Linux will be damaged as a result? If so, how?

People who don't have the ability to create and maintain the quality of the linux kernel seeking to have power, via social, political and economic ostracism, over those who do actually have the skills and competence to do so.

Re: Linux 4.19

#94

Post by deialtrous »

werid wrote: post #38
codeaken wrote: post #27

I feel really worried about the Kernel project now that they have let Identity Politics breach their walls. These kind of things have a tendency to split a community rather than unite it. The kernel project is surely one of the most successful software projects ever. Having survived for 20 years, why change a winning formula? I have always considered Linus un-political and more interested in getting sh*t done and get…

The community was already split. Those who tolerated his behaviour and those who didn't.

For the 30 years where it was one project, the community was split? And now that it has been forked because of outside political issues being forced in, that's the same amount of split as the last 30 years?

Re: Linux 4.19

#95

Post by wmil »

ChrisSD wrote: post #45

I think all this handwringing over the CoC would have more weight for me if: a) It came from major Linux contributors. b) It didn't assume a conspiracy to not only oust Linus but also get him to dance to their tune.

It's not really a conspiracy theory.

A "New Yorker" writer has publicly claimed credit for Torvalds' change of heart. There was a massive hit piece ready to go if he didn't accept the CoC and step down.

https://www.itwire.com/open-source/84590-new-yorker-claims-c...

Re: Linux 4.19

#96

Post by beaconstudios »

jf- wrote: post #29

I’m seeing a lot of people stating that they’re worried about this code of conduct. Since I’ve not read it or any commentary about it, can someone tell me why it’s so worrying? Is there a sincere fear that Linux will be damaged as a result? If so, how?

it's just one of many fronts in the ongoing culture war. Allegedly, progressive activists are pushing CoCs onto open source projects and other people are opposed to this. Obviously, you'll get different explanations for the motivations involved by asking different parties so I can't speak to that objectively.

Re: Linux 4.19

#97

Post by elcomet »

0xfeeddeadbeef wrote: post #66
orivej wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is a good starting point to research the critique of this document: https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/12004#note-6 . Its point is particularly apt: > Given a choice between only two extremes, I'd far rather have Linus Torvalds telling me I'm an idiot and my code is shit, then exist in an offense taking culture where various forms of criticism are re-branded as "harassment." However, the Linux copy has cut one of…

I would like to extend this point: "I'd rather have Linus Torvalds telling me I'm an idiot and my code is shit, than ... releasing kernel with my shitty code and EVERYONE thinking that I'm an idiot".

But this is a false dichotomy.

They could just refuse your code without calling you an idiot.

Re: Linux 4.19

#98

Post by gpm »

deialtrous wrote: post #94
werid wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The community was already split. Those who tolerated his behaviour and those who didn't.

For the 30 years where it was one project, the community was split? And now that it has been forked because of outside political issues being forced in, that's the same amount of split as the last 30 years?

There's a fork of linux right now? Where can I read more? A quick search isn't finding it...

Re: Linux 4.19

#99

Post by werid »

codeaken wrote: post #52
werid wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The community was already split. Those who tolerated his behaviour and those who didn't.

I don't think it was, at least not that black and white. If the community really was that split the project would not have survived for 20 years. Surely we would have seen a fork where the involved factions split off. I think this is a very vocal minority in play here. From my understanding these changes did not come from any of the core contributors but rather from activists. The used divide and rule; if you don't s…

I said nothing of how big the split was.

It seems the loud voices about how bad the CoC is aren't actually kernel devs...

But there is atleast one known kernel dev who spoke up about Linus' behaviour, and eventually just quit developing for the kernel.

edit: not to mention those who don't want to touch the kernel because of his behaviour. one guy said the only contributions he makes to the kernel are for his employer. if it wasn't for that, he'd not touch it.

Re: Linux 4.19

#100

Post by davemp »

codetrotter wrote: post #39
pjf wrote: post #2

See summary at https://kernelnewbies.org/Linux_4.19

From the page: > Add EROFS (Enhanced Read-Only File System), a lightweight read-only file system with modern designs for scenarios which need high-performance read-only requirements, eg. firmwares in mobile phone or LIVECDs and > It is a experimental project, under the staging directory, and still expects to make changes to the on-disk layout. I see it's included in the 4.19 branch of the Raspberry Pi fork of the ker…

That's really nice. I remember having to use Read-Only on a few Raspberry Pi projects because they have a tendency to corrupt SD cards. Getting a free storage performance boost would really improve usability for my past use cases.
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