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US Announces Withdraw From Postal Treaty

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Re: US Announces Withdraw From Postal Treaty

#91

Post by anjc »

colechristensen wrote: post #46
onion2k wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What will be the unintended consequences I wonder? Small businesses who use dropshipping direct from Chinese companies will stop being able to compete with big businesses who buy in bulk and ship from US warehouses. This will benefit the likes of Amazon more than anyone else. Not sure if that's an unintended consequence though.

>This will benefit the likes of Amazon more than anyone else. A _huge_ chunk of Amazon is low effort Chinese clone / drop shipped crap or straight up forgery. I don't feel sorry for /r/entrepreneur denizens' loss. It will help the kind of small business with core competencies revolving around producing things and hurt the kind of small business with core competencies revolving around buying things on Alibaba and sell…

> People who actually wanted to do things well...

You think intermediaries (e.g. dropshippers) can't add value to a supply chain? I don't know why you'd be so uncaring about /r/entrepreneurs when these are generally just people trying to get by as best they can. Having said that, this treaty withdrawal is still a good idea.

Re: US Announces Withdraw From Postal Treaty

#92

Post by evgen »

onion2k wrote: post #37
dawnerd wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which isn’t a bad thing. Maybe we’ll see less spam drop shipped items on Amazon finally. eBay too.

The things you see on Amazon are bought by the container-load from China and sent to Amazon's warehouses for fulfilment. This change will encourage that sort of business because it'll no longer be worthwhile sending direct from China (as the likes of dx.com and aliexpress do now).

While Amazon won't tell us, I think you are incorrect. A huge fraction of the cheap clone items you see listed are not in Amazon warehouses but are shipped direct from China. Fully half of my Amazon purchases over the past year have been direct shipped from China, to the point where now I check Alibaba first before purchasing something from Amazon if the item is unimportant enough that I don't care about the risk of getting a cheap counterfeit.

Re: US Announces Withdraw From Postal Treaty

#93

Post by Camillo »

adventured wrote: post #30
sschueller wrote: post #11

We have the same issue in Switzerland with cheap packages from China which are received as mail but do not fit through the automated sorting system. This requires a lot of manual labor which increases the costs for the postal service. This is why sometime this year people who receive such mail will be billed additional fees increasing slowly over the next few years. The treaty allows under developed nations to ship a…

It does require having to leave the treaty - if the UPU Congress refuses to reclassify China. The threat to leave, is meant to apply enough pressure to finally get that reclassification accomplished. They've been intentionally dragging their feet on this matter over time and they only meet under normal circumstances every four years (they can of course hold emergency sessions). It's the exact same problem the US has…

True, but speaking of the WTO, how hard has the US really tried there? A lot of people with economic power in the US benefit from being able to play labor arbitrage with China.

Re: US Announces Withdraw From Postal Treaty

#94

Post by lozenge »

bsder wrote: post #63
sschueller wrote: post #11

We have the same issue in Switzerland with cheap packages from China which are received as mail but do not fit through the automated sorting system. This requires a lot of manual labor which increases the costs for the postal service. This is why sometime this year people who receive such mail will be billed additional fees increasing slowly over the next few years. The treaty allows under developed nations to ship a…

> This is why sometime this year people who receive such mail will be billed additional fees increasing slowly over the next few years. Why are the people receiving the mail being billed extra when it is the sender failing compliance? Shouldn't this be rolled into "shipping and handling" that the sender has to deal with?

Because the cost of international mail is fixed under the treaty, so there is no way to charge fees to senders in other countries.

Re: US Announces Withdraw From Postal Treaty

#95

Post by wbl »

colechristensen wrote: post #27
paulsutter wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Globalization is about an even playing field, not one-sided concessions and subsidies

The idea of free trade/globalization is everyone benefiting from the efficiency of each place doing the work it can do most efficiently. Iowa corn and Swiss fine machinery and Arab oil and all sorts of things where one place can do something better and cheaper because of the nature of the place. Poverty (cheap labor) and treaties (cheap postage) shouldn't be the drivers of this efficiency because they aren't caused b…

The biggest reduction in global poverty we've seen is due to outsourcing to China. Don't you care about starving Chinese peasants?

Re: US Announces Withdraw From Postal Treaty

#96

Post by secfirstmd »

adwhit wrote: post #79
paulsutter wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Globalization is about an even playing field, not one-sided concessions and subsidies

Globalization is a hegemonic project of the West, best understood as a means to transfer capital from the economic peripheries to the imperial core, and has tended to wreak havoc on developing countries that have exposed themselves to it. China has been very sensible to ignore the dogma about free trade and to exploit weaknesses and loopholes in trade treaties when they find them.

Very true. In reality this is following the model South Korea, Japan took.

Re: US Announces Withdraw From Postal Treaty

#97

Post by plugger »

whatshisface wrote: post #73
plugger wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incorrect, I live in Australia. This kinda reminds me of the conversation I had with my brother in law regarding the likes of SingAir, Emirates, and Qatar and just how much better they are when compared to US carriers that charge more on the same route despite providing an inferior product comparatively. He started on about how those air carriers are government subsidised, it's not fair, and I shouldn't be flying wit…

Those airlines don't provide a better product for a lower cost, they are selling you a higher-end product and billing part of it to their own citizens. That's what government subsidy means.

Yes, I understand what government subsidies are and how they work. But if I'm not the one subsidising the product then I don't understand how me benefiting from that is a bad thing for me personally.

The US subsidises gasoline quite aggressively when compared to other countries around the world. You can see this in fuel costs; routinely US gasoline used to be cheaper by the gallon than Australian gasoline was by the litre. I've never once heard an American complain that their fuel is too cheap despite the fact that their taxes and government are directly responsible for said low cost.

Re: US Announces Withdraw From Postal Treaty

#98

Post by pkaye »

wbl wrote: post #95
colechristensen wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea of free trade/globalization is everyone benefiting from the efficiency of each place doing the work it can do most efficiently. Iowa corn and Swiss fine machinery and Arab oil and all sorts of things where one place can do something better and cheaper because of the nature of the place. Poverty (cheap labor) and treaties (cheap postage) shouldn't be the drivers of this efficiency because they aren't caused b…

The biggest reduction in global poverty we've seen is due to outsourcing to China. Don't you care about starving Chinese peasants?

I'm sure there are plenty of billionaires in China that can do more for them.

Re: US Announces Withdraw From Postal Treaty

#99

Post by qqqwww »

jayd16 wrote: post #77

Do people in this thread realize the USPS is almost entirely self funded? I see a lot of talk about tax dollars etc. The USPS doesn't work that way.

If that is true, then American consumers subsidize Chinese shipping via higher costs of domestic shipping rather than through higher taxes.

Re: US Announces Withdraw From Postal Treaty

#100

Post by A2017U1 »

paulsutter wrote: post #7
godzillabrennus wrote: post #2

A friend helped the Wall Street Journal expose the damage this treaty was doing to his small business in the United States as it tried to fend off counterfeiters. https://www.wsj.com/articles/this-subsidy-for-china-is-dumb-... Seems like a win for American innovation if you care about that thing. Seems like China is going to get hurt by this change which is bad for globalization if you are into that thing.

Globalization is about an even playing field, not one-sided concessions and subsidies

You would have to eliminate all government policy to get rid of subsidies. There a million ways around every clause in a 1000 page free trade agreement. It's just not possible.

I'm a supporter of liberal trade between all countries but you've got to be honest that pure "free" trade just ain't happening while there's a few hundred individual countries on Earth

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