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Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

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Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#91

Post by ianai »

joewee wrote: post #17

Speaking from experience you need two resumes (I’m much younger, but with a long career). One that’s management focused and one that’s developer focused. Use the appropriate resume for the role you are applying for. Even though I’m a hands on engineer people didn’t want to consider me for roles because I had management experience and they thought the engineering role would be too boring, and vice versa. Reduce your r…

Agree on using the discrimination to a resumes advantage. I think in IT age and plenty of experience lends itself to either the security or management positions.

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#92

Post by mfer »

A few thoughts...

1. A resume isn't a CV. It's more like a sales brochure to sell yourself. Have resumes tailored for different things that show how having you will help them.

2. Age discrimination is a problem. Even though it's illegal and not useful. But, companies would rather spend on lawyers to work around their illegal antics and are not focused on useful (see the open office craze). If they hack around being useful or legal it's ok to hack around their processes.

3. Try looking for something outside of the valley or the companies that want to be like that. There are tech jobs all over and remote gigs for some of them. Look for sane companies where they are at.

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#93

Post by joewee »

justinhj wrote: post #88
joewee wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Culture” is a catch all for lack of rapport. Either because of their biases or our own. Which is fine for me, I probably wouldn’t have liked working with them if the most significant finding they come away from the interview is that I want to go home at a reasonable hour or I’m not a sports fan. Lol. Finding a good job fit takes time unfortunately. Having a network helps, because you probably already have shared val…

I agree with your points entirely, but "culture fit" is a very ugly thing when used to exclude people that cannot be legally discriminated against. There's a reason these employment laws exist; people have a right to a job they are qualified to do regardless of whether they share the hobbies or opinions of the interview team.

I agree 100%. I mention trying to build rapport, but I really don’t want to work with a team that would exclude someone for “culture” the companies that hire for culture make it very difficult for the few outsiders that mistakenly get hired.

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#94

Post by rrauenza »

joewee wrote: post #82
klaw123 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are companies that take this the other way. Companies where everyone is over 40 and has kids. And stability of the prod systems is highly prized. Nobody wants hackathons , we all leave at 5:30pm each day. These companies exist in Bay Area.

Care to list a few for those who might be looking for something like that?

I like working at VMware. It has a good work/life balance, age distribution seems well distributed, and only a couple hackathons a year -- totally optional.

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#95

Post by justinhj »

joewee wrote: post #17

Speaking from experience you need two resumes (I’m much younger, but with a long career). One that’s management focused and one that’s developer focused. Use the appropriate resume for the role you are applying for. Even though I’m a hands on engineer people didn’t want to consider me for roles because I had management experience and they thought the engineering role would be too boring, and vice versa. Reduce your r…

I've instinctively done this for the last little while (I'm approaching my 50s). I list the last handful of jobs and no dates on the university courses etc. I don't put a huge list of languages and technology I've used, just the most recent and relevant. Not having problems so far.

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#96

Post by fweespeech »

joewee wrote: post #82
klaw123 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are companies that take this the other way. Companies where everyone is over 40 and has kids. And stability of the prod systems is highly prized. Nobody wants hackathons , we all leave at 5:30pm each day. These companies exist in Bay Area.

Care to list a few for those who might be looking for something like that?

Danaher / Danaher Labs - assuming you can avoid having a bad manager.

Our home room would regularly scold us gently for working late / weekends. The problem was, the home room wasn't really in charge.

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#97

Post by TomVDB »

fecak wrote: post #50

I'm a professional resume writer and job search strategy consultant (20 years of tech recruiting experience), and I'd be open to taking a look to see what the issue might be (see my profile for contact info). It might not even be the resume, but instead your approach to how you're applying. If you're just sending resumes through Indeed and hoping for responses, you're doing it wrong. The age thing may be an issue of…

I assume that you've worked with 60 yo customers in the past.

What's your experience with placing them?

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#98

Post by duxup »

joewee wrote: post #84
duxup wrote: post #8

Heck I'm only over 40. I did a handful of interviews at places where folks who I went to school with also interviewed. I got a lot of "culture" questions. My younger classmates, did not hear the world "culture" in their interviews, ever. It's hard not to be pessimistic and assume "culture" was about age...

“Culture” is a catch all for lack of rapport. Either because of their biases or our own. Which is fine for me, I probably wouldn’t have liked working with them if the most significant finding they come away from the interview is that I want to go home at a reasonable hour or I’m not a sports fan. Lol. Finding a good job fit takes time unfortunately. Having a network helps, because you probably already have shared val…

>Perhaps focus on rapport at the start of your interviews?

I don't think that is the issue. I was looking for an entry level position at the time, it's a CROWED field, and the handful of places where I and another much younger classmate both interviewed where I could compare included at least one, often more phone interviews. If I wasn't getting along well with them I don't expect they would have brought me in. Most of the phone calls and interpersonal in person interviews went great IMO.

To be clear I have no idea what their idea of "culture fit" actually was.

I've since started asking, nobody has been able to answer without first looking confused and humming and hawing a while. Most of the answers were usually surprisingly generic and such about "openness", "fun" and such, I suspect a few were made up on the spot. Amusing ;)

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