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For $450, a Japanese Company Will Quit Your Job for You

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Re: For $450, a Japanese Company Will Quit Your Job for You

#91

Post by john_moscow »

rlander wrote: post #76

It has to go both ways, though. At my last job, when I first talked to the CTO (my boss) about leaving, he asked me to think about it and talk again the next day. The next day he postponed the meeting. Then, at the day of the meeting, he was out of the office. It had been 5 days since the first talk so I chose to escalate the matter and, in an Arrested-Development-episode kind of situation, I learned that the CEO and…

I'm curious what would have happened, had you also taken a sick vacation then.

BTW, generally, people are less likely to pull off shit like that if you motivate your resignation with some health/moving/whatever external factors. Just shift the focus way from "I don't want to work with you assholes" to "my wife got reassigned to %STATENAME%, so I guess I have to follow" or whatever sounds plausible and you're good to go.

Re: For $450, a Japanese Company Will Quit Your Job for You

#92

Post by s73v3r_ »

joncrane wrote: post #58
throwaway6789 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Company HR will ask you to sign a bond once you get selected in the visa lottery. We have to sign this bond if we want them to go ahead with our H1B process. This is different from the bond they have for freshers (which usually lasts for 2 years at the start of your career). Once we sign this bond, we have to accept whatever salary they offer for our onsite assignment (deputation to US). People won't even know their…

> HR can treat us as "absconding" and refuse to give the service letter unless we either pay the bond amount or come back to India I would imagine a signing bonus would be handy to pay off the bond. In IT it's fairly common to get signing bonuses.

Is it? I've never gotten one.

Re: For $450, a Japanese Company Will Quit Your Job for You

#93

Post by zo1 »

antoniuschan99 wrote: post #85
Nadya wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>When those niceties are not a free choice, but "strongly encouraged" by management, they quickly stop being nice. It isn't about being nice though - it's about giving the appearance of nice. If everyone is being nice and courteous to one another for the sake of group harmony, then I think it is good. I can understand why many people would be irritated by it, but then this kind of culture isn't for them. I visit Japa…

That's the love hate relationship with Japan. When I visited there the first time I thought wow everyone is so friendly and the customer service is great! But the more I visited and spoke with my friends who live there, realize that a lot of it is just to put up a face because that is what society there requires them to do. On a personal level it is quite sad in a way, but I also wish the customer service would be li…

That is what society requires us to do. It's very seldom that you can say and act the way you really feel. I'd argue that every culture/society at the moment has this and requires this of the members, to various degrees and in different manners. It just sounds like it's a whole lot more pronounced/obvious in Japan?

Not that I mind, they're a miracle of a country, based on what they appear to have accomplished in the last half-century or so. Compare that to most other war-torn places or places that have struggled in the past, and maybe you could posit that there is something intrinsically good/effective about their culture. And this particular facet might just be that thing.

Re: For $450, a Japanese Company Will Quit Your Job for You

#94

Post by groby_b »

jonawesomegreen wrote: post #83
tinco wrote: post #17

Resigning seems hard, but it's a little bit like giving regular feedback in my opinion. First of all it's best done face to face, because you don't want to be misunderstood, and you want to give the other party a fair chance at replying. Second, you give the compliment sandwich. You start out with thanking them for the opportunity (any job is an opportunity, no matter how shitty it was, you made money and you learned…

> Second, you give the compliment sandwich. I've heard this called the shit sandwich . Good news, bad news, good news. Helps to break unpleasant news in all kinds of situations.

It's an incredibly patronizing way to give feedback: "Hey, you'd never be able to handle criticism on its own, let me window dress it for you. I assume you'll be stupid enough to never notice"

There are plenty of ways to deliver negative feedback with empathy, in a non-hurtful way. This, however, isn't one of them.

Re: For $450, a Japanese Company Will Quit Your Job for You

#95

Post by Nadya »

twblalock wrote: post #88
antoniuschan99 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the love hate relationship with Japan. When I visited there the first time I thought wow everyone is so friendly and the customer service is great! But the more I visited and spoke with my friends who live there, realize that a lot of it is just to put up a face because that is what society there requires them to do. On a personal level it is quite sad in a way, but I also wish the customer service would be li…

I dont see why it’s sad. They figured out that being nice to people, even when they don’t feel like being nice, makes society run better.

It's sad on an individual level - and I'm sure it contributes to Japan's high suicide rate and people who choose to withdraw from society [0]. Many cultures have a similar concept of "putting your personal feelings aside" but to varying degrees. In the US you put on a "professional persona" and may set your personal feelings aside while at work. But if you're at a job where your personal and professional personas are at ends with one another - you're going to be very unhappy.

If your personal and public personas are at ends with one another, in a society where you're almost always required to put on your "public persona", you're going to be unhappy all the time. You can choose to withdraw from society so you no longer need to fake a public persona - but even that is very difficult and can make people unhappy (using the old "we're meant to be social animals" excuse).

I think the culture works for people who's personal and public personas are mostly in agreement with one another and people who have made peace with setting their own selves aside for "the greater good" (if "societal harmony" is an acceptable "greater good", which I personally feel it is).

All in my own opinion of course. I don't have data on hand to support any of my claims. :)

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori

Re: For $450, a Japanese Company Will Quit Your Job for You

#96

Post by sofon »

emodendroket wrote: post #66
sofon wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think like most "weird Japan" articles this one is being mischaracterised somewhat. It is often somewhat difficult in Japan to get your legal entitlement when leaving a so called "black" company. They might not easily pay out your remaining holiday, or they might use "power harassment" to otherwise make your exit process difficult. So I can see that a company like this, while not providing legal services, removes t…

I mean, there's also the fact that these stories never tell you how prevalent or not these services are. All the attention showered on these unusual services can give you the idea that every second person in Japan is using them when that's far from true.

No, but this service did also do the rounds in Japan. In this case it's most likely not very useful, but I think people can understand what the utility might be (and the social context in Japan in a little different).

Re: For $450, a Japanese Company Will Quit Your Job for You

#97

Post by sofon »

nmstoker wrote: post #72
sofon wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think like most "weird Japan" articles this one is being mischaracterised somewhat. It is often somewhat difficult in Japan to get your legal entitlement when leaving a so called "black" company. They might not easily pay out your remaining holiday, or they might use "power harassment" to otherwise make your exit process difficult. So I can see that a company like this, while not providing legal services, removes t…

Surely they're even less likely to uphold their legal duties if you signal that you haven't got the courage to turn up in person.

Don't know, but I would guess that in most cases they want to coerce people into giving up their rights. I.e. "sign this to agree you give up your right to X". That might be remaining holiday pay or something else.

Actually... thinking back I've literally had an ex-boss in Japan try to get me to sign releases to various things. In the end I paid a lawyer to tell the guy to stop harassing me. This service would have been cheaper...

Re: For $450, a Japanese Company Will Quit Your Job for You

#99

Post by hfdgiutdryg »

antoniuschan99 wrote: post #85
Nadya wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>When those niceties are not a free choice, but "strongly encouraged" by management, they quickly stop being nice. It isn't about being nice though - it's about giving the appearance of nice. If everyone is being nice and courteous to one another for the sake of group harmony, then I think it is good. I can understand why many people would be irritated by it, but then this kind of culture isn't for them. I visit Japa…

That's the love hate relationship with Japan. When I visited there the first time I thought wow everyone is so friendly and the customer service is great! But the more I visited and spoke with my friends who live there, realize that a lot of it is just to put up a face because that is what society there requires them to do. On a personal level it is quite sad in a way, but I also wish the customer service would be li…

Even if it's faked, it still has a net positive effect.

Re: For $450, a Japanese Company Will Quit Your Job for You

#100

Post by hfdgiutdryg »

Nadya wrote: post #95
twblalock wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont see why it’s sad. They figured out that being nice to people, even when they don’t feel like being nice, makes society run better.

It's sad on an individual level - and I'm sure it contributes to Japan's high suicide rate and people who choose to withdraw from society [0]. Many cultures have a similar concept of "putting your personal feelings aside" but to varying degrees. In the US you put on a "professional persona" and may set your personal feelings aside while at work. But if you're at a job where your personal and professional personas are…

Regarding suicide, I blame relatively poor mental healthcare, rigid societal expectations of people's lives (family & career track), and a (supposed) history of suicide as a solution.

Or maybe in the West, with cultural roots in Christianity, which strongly discourages suicide, we might just be benefiting from more social taboo around it.

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