Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 213 posts

Re: Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

#91

Post by Rapzid »

mistersquid wrote: post #47

Two things really caught me about this story besides the security implication. First, the skill Russell deployed from (only?) having used a PC flight simulator surprised me. If Russell in fact never had any flight experience outside a simulator, well, I'm just stunned at what he was capable of doing. (Linked in article, here for convenience.) [0] Second, and more importantly, Russell's demise is tragic, pure and simp…

Taking off and flying a plane in calm conditions is actually not that hard.

Getting where you are going safely, without running out of fuel, and landing are the tricky parts.

Re: Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

#93

Post by SmellyGeekBoy »

cncrnd wrote: post #71
aaronmck wrote: post #62

The article title seems like an overreaction to a really sad situation. We have to trust at least someone, and although he clearly had some issues (maybe recent), he wasn't out to hurt anyone or aligned with any groups that wanted to inflict harm. Fighter jets were there immediately, people tried to talk him down, and he was lost. Nothing better could have been done all around. Yes, commercial planes could be keycode…

Hmm I don't think it's that much of a headache to have some PIN code provided to pilots as an additional measure. These planes aren't cheap, even a small personal jet is in the low millions. A Boeing 747 or similar is in the hundreds of millions.

Airline engineering employees need to power on planes, fire up various systems to test, and even move them around. It's absolutely routine. All the reports I've seen seem to suggest that this was one of those employees. So it seems reasonable to assume that he would have had the PIN or "key" or whatever in this case anyway.

Re: Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

#94

Post by SmellyGeekBoy »

Rapzid wrote: post #91
mistersquid wrote: post #47

Two things really caught me about this story besides the security implication. First, the skill Russell deployed from (only?) having used a PC flight simulator surprised me. If Russell in fact never had any flight experience outside a simulator, well, I'm just stunned at what he was capable of doing. (Linked in article, here for convenience.) [0] Second, and more importantly, Russell's demise is tragic, pure and simp…

Taking off and flying a plane in calm conditions is actually not that hard. Getting where you are going safely, without running out of fuel, and landing are the tricky parts.

Taking off and cruising aren't hard, but low altitude loops and rolls certainly are.

Re: Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

#95

Post by SmellyGeekBoy »

sakopov wrote: post #56
remarkEon wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The recordings are surreal. He was talking about how beautiful Mount Rainer was and how he was going to check out the Olympics. He even asked for the coordinates to that Orca pod up here that's been in the news lately. I immediately got the sense he wasn't a threat, at least not intentionally - just a guy a bit lost. (Yes obviously I know he was still a major threat regardless of if he meant to do any harm.)

Very much surreal. He seemed very content considering his dire circumstances. Not to take away from the severity of his actions, but the fact that he completed what looked like a barrel roll w/o seemingly any prior flight experience is interesting to say the least.

Sounds like someone who had been contemplating suicide for a long time and was finally getting his wish. I've never felt that way myself but I can definitely see how it could be a huge relief.

Re: Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

#96

Post by DanBC »

gumby wrote: post #15

> "Mr. Russell...had worked his shift on Friday." So glad they told us this important fact. I wonder if his final direct deposit (to his estate) will include that days' pay or if it will count as a vacation day? Has the news always been this inane?

It's emphasising the fact that suicide is sometimes a sudden act and is, for some people, more about "rapid onset despair" than long lasting mental illness.

Re: Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

#97

Post by pjc50 »

h4b4n3r0 wrote: post #76
Toenex wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless of course as an employee he had access to one.

Well, require that only pilots have access to the key then.

.. which they will promptly hand over to the engineers for maintenance purposes, just as people do with their car keys.

Re: Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

#98

Post by pjc50 »

noja wrote: post #88

This is something we handle really, really badly. One bad thing happens one time (like a failed shoe bomb), and so everybody forever-more has to be permanently inconvenienced every day. Whatever the response to this incident is, I hope (and doubt) that it will also balance the CHANCE of this happening against the huge cost and inconvenience of making it "impossible" to ever happen again. We all know that 100% and "im…

Comparatively, if someone wants to murder-suicide with a car or a gun, the response is basically nothing.

Re: Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

#99

Post by speedplane »

pjc50 wrote: post #98
noja wrote: post #88

This is something we handle really, really badly. One bad thing happens one time (like a failed shoe bomb), and so everybody forever-more has to be permanently inconvenienced every day. Whatever the response to this incident is, I hope (and doubt) that it will also balance the CHANCE of this happening against the huge cost and inconvenience of making it "impossible" to ever happen again. We all know that 100% and "im…

Comparatively, if someone wants to murder-suicide with a car or a gun, the response is basically nothing.

With guns there is a response... buying more guns.

Re: Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

#100

Post by close04 »

chrisper wrote: post #63
mistersquid wrote: post #47

Two things really caught me about this story besides the security implication. First, the skill Russell deployed from (only?) having used a PC flight simulator surprised me. If Russell in fact never had any flight experience outside a simulator, well, I'm just stunned at what he was capable of doing. (Linked in article, here for convenience.) [0] Second, and more importantly, Russell's demise is tragic, pure and simp…

I have put many hours in flight simulators (the ones you can install on your own PC). One day I decided to take a real flying lesson. It was almost the same as in the simulator. Obviously the controls are a bit different because of different feedback, but you get used to it quickly. I think what helps a lot is that there are so many very detailed plane packages out there you can buy for the simulators. Too bad the co…

There's one thing that really bugs me: why is everyone so surprised that an airport worker who was familiar with the planes managed to take off?

The reason this bugs me is that the 9/11 investigation concluded that multiple people with 0 flight experience can be taught to accurately steer a large commercial jet after just a short time training on small aircraft. In this frame of reference managing to take of in a small turboprop in good weather conditions shouldn't surprise anybody.

P.S. OK, I missed the part where "the plane was doing deep dives, broad loops and at least one upside-down roll"... But the "bug" is still there. If it's generally accepted that you can learn your way in a 747 cockpit on relatively short notice, doing dives and loops with a small plane shouldn't be that unbelievable. And I say this as a person who can comfortably take off and land a Piper Cherokee but was pretty dumbfounded when sitting in the captain's seat of a 747 for the first time.

Post reply on HN