Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#91

Post by che_shirecat » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:04 PM UTC

manigandham wrote: post #67

Why do the 1.4 billion people living there put up with it in the first place? Why they have just made Jinping a lifetime president? Why are they fine with their own Chinese tech companies doing this already? It would help to understand the geopolitical causes of this environment instead of the constant faux outrage over Google doing what any business does, which is provide services in accordance to the laws where the…

1) it's part of the social contract. freedom of speech is relatively new phenomena, and the history of the US has shown both the upsides and downsides of that right. standing in a town square and criticizing the king/emperor/lord would have gotten you imprisoned or killed for most of human history, from the times of the Roman emperors to the monarchies of more recent times. modern chinese trade certain rights that many in the West would consider "unalienable" for the efficiency of a tightly ruled authoritarian government that has been seen as instrumental in bringing two decades of unprecedented growth / lifting 500M people out of poverty.

2) the very fact that china has 1.4B makes the existence of an authoritarian government much more easier to understand. without defending the actions of the PRC, from a purely utilitarian standpoint censorship and state control of the media allows for greater social cohesion and the avoidance of ideas and movements that can spread and cause mass hysteria. china is very aware of its own history of such movements and the havoc they've created (the Taiping Rebellion for a great example).

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#92

Post by neom » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:04 PM UTC

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #45

Alir3z4 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither US or EU are the world police. They have no rights and should not have any to pressure any country to push their own idea of how things should work in another country, just like how China and others don't demand such and even if they do that doesn't make it less wrong.

> They have no rights and should not have any to pressure any country to push their own idea of how things should work in another country To believe that China does not attempt to influence other countries is naive. China puts a great deal of pressure on other nations with regard to things like recognition of Taiwan or inviting the Dalai Lama to speak. These have occasionally been in the news over the last few years,…

China certainly has a very strong view on the make-up of the region, much is historical, some of it fair. However, we don't see them going around converting everyone to communism. In fact, even all the investment they are doing in Africa right now, very little of the social aspects of china are being exported. Xi Jinping has always maintained: china is not for export.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#93

Post by novaRom » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:09 PM UTC

Search terms about human rights, democracy, religion and peaceful protests will be among the words blacklisted in the search engine app

This is disgusting! I am not using Google Search anymore because of Firefox+DDG, but where are alternatives to YouTube, Gmail, Gmaps?

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#94

Post by vermontdevil » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:10 PM UTC

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #45

Alir3z4 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither US or EU are the world police. They have no rights and should not have any to pressure any country to push their own idea of how things should work in another country, just like how China and others don't demand such and even if they do that doesn't make it less wrong.

> They have no rights and should not have any to pressure any country to push their own idea of how things should work in another country To believe that China does not attempt to influence other countries is naive. China puts a great deal of pressure on other nations with regard to things like recognition of Taiwan or inviting the Dalai Lama to speak. These have occasionally been in the news over the last few years,…

Don't forget the pressure on Marriott to fire an employee for clicking 'like' on a Tibet-related topic.

And for pressuring airlines not to list Taiwan on their websites for booking.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#95

Post by darepublic » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:11 PM UTC

pytyper2 wrote: post #75

macspoofing wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why should there be a different standard for Google and other tech companies to not expand into China. This exactly. I would even make a stronger case. It's not fair to expect a technology company to fight a major world economic power. This is a failure of US and EU governments. They should pressure China to liberalize their government and provide a level economic playing field (it is insane what China gets away wit…

Do you remember the "Don't Be Evil" campaign? Google literally rose to prominence with this as their slogan. I would expect a company whose slogan is "Don't Be Evil" to completely shun a country who wants censored search.

I thought Google performed censorship in North America too. After Trump's election people were crying for more censorship on facebook and Google.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#96

Post by afroboy » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:11 PM UTC

ainiriand wrote: post #64

Alir3z4 wrote: post #31

Each country has its own rules and for sure any company wishing to operate there should abide. Be from North Korea or Cuba etc and then see if PayPal opens an account for you. I don't see PayPal fights for it, they simply abide the law and move on. You have a company and the gov gives you tons of regulations that most of them are unfair? Your problem, take it or leave it.

You cannot open in NK because it has a trade block imposed by the US. Something similar was happening with Cuba or Iran. Let me tell you that abiding and legitimating freedom opressing regimes is not very american, even if it is for money.

> Let me tell you that abiding and legitimating freedom opressing regimes is not very american, even if it is for money.

This is really far from the truth,Israel and Saudi arabia are example how this is bullshit.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#97

Post by pravbeatle » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:11 PM UTC

nailer wrote: post #79

macspoofing wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why should there be a different standard for Google and other tech companies to not expand into China. This exactly. I would even make a stronger case. It's not fair to expect a technology company to fight a major world economic power. This is a failure of US and EU governments. They should pressure China to liberalize their government and provide a level economic playing field (it is insane what China gets away wit…

Why not both? - American companies stop facilitating totalitarian regimes - World governments also prompt totalitarian regimes to move towards democracy

That's a naive and simplistic view of the world. I grew up in the Middle East and really believed they needed some democracy.

In reality, moving to Democracy would result in more radicalization and instability and not less.

Without going into a long rant, there are toxic forces within many countries that would take their country on a profoundly bad route, by any universal standard, if Democracy were forced upon them.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#98

Post by nostalgeek » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:12 PM UTC

manigandham wrote: post #82

mozey wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the difference between censorship and management of spam, fake news, sock puppet accounts etc?

Isn't there a big difference? It's removing fake junk vs hiding truthful information.

Who decides what Junk is? who guards the guardians?

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#99

Post by beauzero » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:14 PM UTC

crunchlibrarian wrote: post #90

babsHeinz wrote: post #27

Because Google's search engine isn't censored in the rest of its locations?

Yeah it's strange how nobody talks about the fact that google search is getting less and less relevant and more and more filled with garbage every year. It's downright terrible, I have to go to social media or search with lots of domain operators (if I can remember them) to actually find what I'm looking for. I'm sure google's "analytics" say they are doing great and results are more relevant and engaging for them an…

It's funny you say that. DDG, 2 years ago, was hard for me to use (less relevant). The last 3 months especially, they are about the same. I have a limited search set though...mostly .NET code searches.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#100

Post by alexandercrohde » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:16 PM UTC

mywacaday wrote: post #20

Why should there be a different standard for Google and other tech companies to not expand into China. If we have a problem with how their government works policy should be applied that prevents/manages how businesses subject to our laws operate abroad. The majority of people don't really care how corporations behave. If they did Google search/gmail/maps would not be so popular. They have the right price point(0$) fo…

No.

- Most people care a lot how corporations behave. Many corporations have a very, very bad reputation and it affects their business. E.G: I know more than one person who deleted their facebook.

- Google got its popularity by indicating it was not a standard corporation ("Don't be evil" and acting on it). Google is free to sell that away, but if it does it loses a hard-to-quantify place in our idealistic hearts.

- Maybe you're right, maybe we should hold other tech companies to a higher standard too.

- The US Gov has no effective means to change the structure of China's government. It also cares more about trade and stability than the freedom of China's population.