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Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

theintercept.com

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Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#71

Post by starbugs »

manigandham wrote: post #67

Why do the 1.4 billion people living there put up with it in the first place? Why they have just made Jinping a lifetime president? Why are they fine with their own Chinese tech companies doing this already? It would help to understand the geopolitical causes of this environment instead of the constant faux outrage over Google doing what any business does, which is provide services in accordance to the laws where the…

If you reach a certain scale you effectively are a political power, whether you want it or not.

What you do and under which circumstances you offer your business is a political statement, whether you want it or not.

There's no way out. You will be held responsible for what you do and what you don't do.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#72

Post by wwhitlow »

quirkot wrote: post #68

Small reminder that companies must submit all source code for review if they do business in China

Wait really?!? I'd love to see a link to that, so China has more knowledge about how the services that control everyone's digital lives function then we do in America. While I see the totalitarian effect that can have the lack of knowledge and trust in these brands is slowly turning me away especially since alternatives exist.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#73

Post by pas »

manigandham wrote: post #67

Why do the 1.4 billion people living there put up with it in the first place? Why they have just made Jinping a lifetime president? Why are they fine with their own Chinese tech companies doing this already? It would help to understand the geopolitical causes of this environment instead of the constant faux outrage over Google doing what any business does, which is provide services in accordance to the laws where the…

> I do not want a world where a few major US tech companies become political powers.

They already are political powers because they are major companies. Tech and US doesn't really matter here. Google is among the biggest companies of the world. (Alphabet is currently 3rd on whatever 2018 list I just found.)

When a company this big moves results in a lot of currents shifting, and that means economies can change. And that's very much political. (Especially when it means cross-border business, and imported/exported competition and so on.)

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#74

Post by confeit »

SSchick wrote: post #8
londons_explore wrote: post #6

Too late... They will never overtake Baidu, who have leaks of Googles algorithm, more data to train AI on, government support, an existing (better) product in asian languages, and a massive userbase.

> who have leaks of Googles algorithm Sounds plausible, got any sources on that?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titan_Rain

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Aurora

https://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/01/new-approach-to-chin...

Google enlisted the help of the NSA after their internal code repository was hacked. (And before the NSA hacked Google for surveillance purposes).

> [...] we detected a highly sophisticated and targeted attack on our corporate infrastructure originating from China that resulted in the theft of intellectual property from Google.

> These attacks and the surveillance they have uncovered--combined with the attempts over the past year to further limit free speech on the web--have led us to conclude that we should review the feasibility of our business operations in China. We have decided we are no longer willing to continue censoring our results on Google.cn, and so over the next few weeks we will be discussing with the Chinese government the basis on which we could operate an unfiltered search engine within the law, if at all. We recognize that this may well mean having to shut down Google.cn, and potentially our offices in China.

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/19/technology/19china.html

> Lanxiang, in east China’s Shandong Province, is a huge vocational school that was established with military support and trains some computer scientists for the military. The school’s computer network is operated by a company with close ties to Baidu, the dominant search engine in China and a competitor of Google.

> “I think it’s impossible for our students to hack Google or other U.S. companies because they are just high school graduates and not at an advanced level. [...]

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#75

Post by pytyper2 »

macspoofing wrote: post #22
mywacaday wrote: post #20

Why should there be a different standard for Google and other tech companies to not expand into China. If we have a problem with how their government works policy should be applied that prevents/manages how businesses subject to our laws operate abroad. The majority of people don't really care how corporations behave. If they did Google search/gmail/maps would not be so popular. They have the right price point(0$) fo…

>Why should there be a different standard for Google and other tech companies to not expand into China. This exactly. I would even make a stronger case. It's not fair to expect a technology company to fight a major world economic power. This is a failure of US and EU governments. They should pressure China to liberalize their government and provide a level economic playing field (it is insane what China gets away wit…

Do you remember the "Don't Be Evil" campaign? Google literally rose to prominence with this as their slogan. I would expect a company whose slogan is "Don't Be Evil" to completely shun a country who wants censored search.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#76

Post by nailer »

manigandham wrote: post #67

Why do the 1.4 billion people living there put up with it in the first place? Why they have just made Jinping a lifetime president? Why are they fine with their own Chinese tech companies doing this already? It would help to understand the geopolitical causes of this environment instead of the constant faux outrage over Google doing what any business does, which is provide services in accordance to the laws where the…

> Why do the 1.4 billion people living there put up with it in the first place?

I have a close friend who's a member of the communist party, but we speak about these things frankly. This is my own opinion after talking with them

0. There was an uprising in 1989, and the people who protested were mown down with machineguns

1. The generation afterwards are conditioned to tie the communist party with China's new prosperity. Ie, the wealth you enjoy has only been possible thanks to the leadership of the communist party.

2. The people have no concept of how/why they would rule. It's a job for someone else. Setting the laws is viewed as a thing for experts, and if you wanted to set the law you'd join the communist party.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#77

Post by pas »

starbugs wrote: post #71
manigandham wrote: post #67

Why do the 1.4 billion people living there put up with it in the first place? Why they have just made Jinping a lifetime president? Why are they fine with their own Chinese tech companies doing this already? It would help to understand the geopolitical causes of this environment instead of the constant faux outrage over Google doing what any business does, which is provide services in accordance to the laws where the…

If you reach a certain scale you effectively are a political power, whether you want it or not. What you do and under which circumstances you offer your business is a political statement, whether you want it or not. There's no way out. You will be held responsible for what you do and what you don't do.

> There's no way out. You will be held responsible for what you do and what you don't do.

And that's fair actually. After all, with great power comes great responsibility. (At least in strict utilitarian sense action, non-action, private-public policies and so on are undoubtedly very much fall under the same consideration. That is, is it possible for the big company to do something? To maximize its utility function? If yes, then they should, right? Now it's up to the people to keep that function useful for them.)

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#78

Post by mozey »

manigandham wrote: post #67

Why do the 1.4 billion people living there put up with it in the first place? Why they have just made Jinping a lifetime president? Why are they fine with their own Chinese tech companies doing this already? It would help to understand the geopolitical causes of this environment instead of the constant faux outrage over Google doing what any business does, which is provide services in accordance to the laws where the…

What is the difference between censorship and management of spam, fake news, sock puppet accounts etc?

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#79

Post by nailer »

macspoofing wrote: post #22
mywacaday wrote: post #20

Why should there be a different standard for Google and other tech companies to not expand into China. If we have a problem with how their government works policy should be applied that prevents/manages how businesses subject to our laws operate abroad. The majority of people don't really care how corporations behave. If they did Google search/gmail/maps would not be so popular. They have the right price point(0$) fo…

>Why should there be a different standard for Google and other tech companies to not expand into China. This exactly. I would even make a stronger case. It's not fair to expect a technology company to fight a major world economic power. This is a failure of US and EU governments. They should pressure China to liberalize their government and provide a level economic playing field (it is insane what China gets away wit…

Why not both?

- American companies stop facilitating totalitarian regimes

- World governments also prompt totalitarian regimes to move towards democracy

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#80

Post by it_learnses »

cazum wrote: post #33
Alir3z4 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither US or EU are the world police. They have no rights and should not have any to pressure any country to push their own idea of how things should work in another country, just like how China and others don't demand such and even if they do that doesn't make it less wrong.

this is a weak argument, as it can be made for literally any situation. Israel massacring Palestinians? Hey man, they can do whatever they want, we don't have any right to tell them not to and it doesn't make what they're doing any less wrong!

You mean Palestinians trying to massacre as many jews as possible and Israel stopping them due to their superior defense capabilities.
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