> Facebook members outside the United States and Canada, whether they know it or not, are currently governed by terms of service agreed with the company’s international headquarters in Ireland. So would the GDPR have any protection for an Facebook-expatriate in the US who does not agree to the new terms, or would they still have no standing in European court as they are not citizen / residents?
The GDPR applies to people located within the EU, irrespective of citizenship. So it would protect a US national in Berlin, but not a German national in New York.
Facebook to change user terms, limiting effect of EU privacy law
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Re: Facebook to change user terms, limiting effect of EU privacy law
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, I'm skeptical of the EU's ability to enforce their laws on someone outside of the EU (citizen or not) with a business outside of the EU.
Unless they are willing to go to war they can't do shit to people outside their jurisdiction by definition, if they had power over that place it would be part of their jurisdiction. What they can do however is turn off access to any resources being acquired in the EU. As the EU is the largest economic bloc in the world atm, and with the massive connectedness of the modern global economy, there's no way for a major in…
True, but effective jurisdiction can be much bigger than you might think, especially in civil matters.
Suppose X is in country Cx, and Y is in country Cy.
X travels to Cy, and while there sells some item to Y, and then goes home to Cx. X ends up getting sued in Cy over this transaction, and loses, and the court in Cy awards a civil judgment to Y.
In many countries Cx, Y can bring that judgment he got in Cy to a court in Cx, and that court will decide if the court in Cy had jurisdiction. In this example, there is a good chance they will say that it did. They will say it had personal jurisdiction over X because X was in Cy for the transaction. They also will look at how the courts work in Cy to ensure that they meet similar standards for fairness as the courts in Cx. If they do the court in Cx might issue a civil judgment good in Cx to enforce Cy's judgment.
(If X did not defend himself in the Cy court, the Cx court might hold its own trial to allow a defense, applying Cx procedure but using Cy substantive law).
In the above example, X was actually in Cy when the transaction happened that led to a civil action in Cy. I think most countries would agree that gives Cy personal jurisdiction.
If X is not actually in Cy, but conducts business with people in Cy by mail, phone, or internet it would be less clear. If you were specifically targeting Cy people with ads and shipping goods to there, there is probably a good chance Cx would decide that is sufficient. If you were not shipping physical goods and not doing anything specifically to target Cy, then Cy might not have personal jurisdiction.
Anyway, the bottom line is that if you are actually doing business with people in another jurisdiction, even if you have no physical presence in that jurisdiction and no assets in that jurisdiction, it is not wise to just assume that a civil judgment against you in that jurisdiction will not be enforceable. You really need to look at exactly how your jurisdiction deals with foreign judgments.
Re: Facebook to change user terms, limiting effect of EU privacy law
#93I don't use Facebook, but could one build a service that automatically sets Facebook's privacy settings to sensible options? A large part of the problem is that changing these through the web site is painful in the extreme. I suppose I'm asking if their API provides read/write access to privacy settings. If so, there's a big opportunity here. More generally, I'd like to see governments mandate that all FB user's priv…
Do you consider your privacy settings your personal information? Do you believe companies should just be exposing that kind of information to random other companies through an api?
Re: Facebook to change user terms, limiting effect of EU privacy law
#94> Facebook to change user terms, limiting effect of EU privacy law Ironically, EULAs ar not really enforceable in the EU. So had this been the other way EU citizens would also have been protected.
Re: Facebook to change user terms, limiting effect of EU privacy law
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
I see it written there but that doesn't mean its enforceable.
Yeah, I'm skeptical of the EU's ability to enforce their laws on someone outside of the EU (citizen or not) with a business outside of the EU.
For instance, if a UK citizen is concerned how their data is being processed by a USA company:
* They complain to the UK's Information Commissioner's Office (ICO) * ICO talks to their US equivalent (I want to say it's somehow the Treasury's job), on the basis of international treaties (Data Shield legislation) * That US regulator deals with the US company and imposes fines / process changes as appropriate
Re: Facebook to change user terms, limiting effect of EU privacy law
#96Zuckerberg went to Congress and told them Facebook would support GDPR, as if the only thing GDPR is are just some controls you'd do at the user interface level (and as we learned today, that they're attempting to get around with dark pattern designs [1]). GDPR is much more comprehensive than that, but most importantly it gives data privacy regulators real teeth to enforce with (fines up to 4% of global revenue). The…
You are assuming GDPR is good. I don’t think so. I don’t want GDRP in the US. The worst abuser of privacy - right now - is the government. I don’t think putting redtapes on startups will solve anything.
Re: Facebook to change user terms, limiting effect of EU privacy law
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
Unless they are willing to go to war they can't do shit to people outside their jurisdiction by definition, if they had power over that place it would be part of their jurisdiction. What they can do however is turn off access to any resources being acquired in the EU. As the EU is the largest economic bloc in the world atm, and with the massive connectedness of the modern global economy, there's no way for a major in…
> Unless they are willing to go to war they can't do shit to people outside their jurisdiction by definition, if they had power over that place it would be part of their jurisdiction. True, but effective jurisdiction can be much bigger than you might think, especially in civil matters. Suppose X is in country Cx, and Y is in country Cy. X travels to Cy, and while there sells some item to Y, and then goes home to Cx.…
1. The primary mechanism for enforcing GDPR is via regulators, not legislation. This is something of an EU/USA culture clash, but the person _complains to a regulator_ rather than lawyering up, so the courts would only be involved in extreme case 2. The jurisdiction is geographical; GDPR applies to persons physically located in the EU irrespective of nationality
Re: Facebook to change user terms, limiting effect of EU privacy law
#98Zuckerberg went to Congress and told them Facebook would support GDPR, as if the only thing GDPR is are just some controls you'd do at the user interface level (and as we learned today, that they're attempting to get around with dark pattern designs [1]). GDPR is much more comprehensive than that, but most importantly it gives data privacy regulators real teeth to enforce with (fines up to 4% of global revenue). The…
You are assuming GDPR is good. I don’t think so. I don’t want GDRP in the US. The worst abuser of privacy - right now - is the government. I don’t think putting redtapes on startups will solve anything.
Lol, that could not be further from the truth, you have no idea of the amount of data private companies gather, the government has nowhere near as much data as Facebook, that's why the NSA has programs to incorporate Facebook data, the reason being that it's much better than anything they have got by themselves.
Re: Facebook to change user terms, limiting effect of EU privacy law
#99Zuckerberg went to Congress and told them Facebook would support GDPR, as if the only thing GDPR is are just some controls you'd do at the user interface level (and as we learned today, that they're attempting to get around with dark pattern designs [1]). GDPR is much more comprehensive than that, but most importantly it gives data privacy regulators real teeth to enforce with (fines up to 4% of global revenue). The…
Why would the US congress want Facebook to go out of their way to maximise their liability to a piece of legislation intended to cripple US corporations and supplement EU budgets with US corporate profits?! Congress should convene a hearing about how current and incoming EU laws are thinly veiled protectionism against US corporations and what should be done about it.
Re: Facebook to change user terms, limiting effect of EU privacy law
#100Zuckerberg went to Congress and told them Facebook would support GDPR, as if the only thing GDPR is are just some controls you'd do at the user interface level (and as we learned today, that they're attempting to get around with dark pattern designs [1]). GDPR is much more comprehensive than that, but most importantly it gives data privacy regulators real teeth to enforce with (fines up to 4% of global revenue). The…
You are assuming GDPR is good. I don’t think so. I don’t want GDRP in the US. The worst abuser of privacy - right now - is the government. I don’t think putting redtapes on startups will solve anything.