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Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

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Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#91

Post by diogenescynic »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #60
ryanobjc wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, what you're saying is that, apart from buying goods and services from rural areas, that the rest of the countryside should somehow assist, with tax money, the rural citizens? Strange that you'd say that, from a population historical of voting for anti-tax candidates. Perhaps not you personally. In other words, you'd like to socialize the downsides of living in remote areas of the country?

Not so. The state takes our taxes and runs the schools. The rural areas get little funding for their schools, even for the same size school (the same tax base approximately). No, its city folks voting all the money to their schools. Its democracy, but its not pretty.

You’re delusional. Rural voters get more tax dollars per person. Look it up. Look at red states vs blue. You reak of entitlement.

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#92

Post by Roboprog »

xor1 wrote: post #12
nugi wrote: post #6

The world continues to focus on cities, while the rest of the people are left behind. I notice a clear metropolitan bias on HN, often incredulous that 1st world citizens are still living in a unimproved state. Even an 30min from one of the 10 biggest cities on the USA, broadband is still unavailable to a majority, ambulance times are in hours, and school funding is increasingly disappearing. Please keep in your minds…

California on its own has a huge amount of disparity. I'm only familiar with the SF/Bay/LA/OC/SD bubbles, since that's where I've spent (and continue to spend) my entire life. I can't even name more than a few counties, and I can barely name any cities outside of those counties. The rest of California that isn't bordering any of these regions may as well be another country to me.

If you want to see “Appalachia West”, drive north on I-5 until you get to Bakersfield, then take CA-99 from Bakersfield to Sacramento. Well, from the LA area, anyway. Or from SF go east on I-80 to Sac, then south on CA-99.

It’s a different world than the coastal cities. (Much like you said, but that’s the route, anyway)

Sacramento itself is a kind of borderland, despite being the capitol.

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#93

Post by s73v3r_ »

forkLding wrote: post #14
watwut wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rural areas tend to be poorest as far as whites go. They are not full of great jobs.

Agreed, however living and housing costs tend to be low, so relatively speaking, with a not-so-great job, can still have a livable career.

But those are the jobs that everyone here is saying are going to be automated away soon.

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#94

Post by throwaway0255 »

Most jobs don't require higher education.

Most jobs that do require higher education don't actually make any use of the higher education.

Are people who didn't follow the author up the ivory tower all failures who just fell through the cracks? What if some people are perfectly happy working in HVAC? These articles are always so condescending. The position that all people should by default go to college and that people who don't are lesser-than and fell through the cracks, is incredibly condescending and ignorant.

After interviewing and working with hundreds of people, I can't even tell the difference between people who have a degree and people who don't. I'm often surprised when I look. It definitely seems like a lot of graduates don't actually learn or retain much of anything, or the curriculum isn't applicable to anything after they graduate and quickly atrophies away.

I don't think colleges are about learning or skills anymore; they're a place where you pay an ever-growing amount of money to compete for a higher position in the social hierarchy, or to obtain government-mandated paper credentials for a specialized position you want.

A lot of the students I've talked to are contemptuous of the entire process, and have no moral qualms whatsoever with cheating and cramming their way through it. They see it as a series of pointless hoops they're being made to jump through. People who really want to learn or develop a skill seem to do it much more effectively elsewhere, and this seems to even be true of actively enrolled college students themselves.

I don't see college as something we need more of. It's an inefficiency in our system left over from a time when technical limitations gave colleges a monopoly on knowledge. We shouldn't be trying to expand its reach, we should be trying to replace it entirely with something less costly and more accessible.

The biggest hurdle are the incumbents who've already bought their status, and unfortunately they do also happen to have most of the power, so their position is safe for now. But I think people are finally starting to see through these clothes.

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#95

Post by askmeaqwestion »

forapurpose wrote: post #89
lugg wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that people from rural areas or just people in rural areas? Because less people in higher education in rural areas shouldn't suprise anyone. People generally move or commute to cities for higher education and that isn't really news. So depending what those numbers really mean could be significant.

> People generally move or commute to cities for higher education I'm not sure that's true. My impression is that most universities are in small towns. In the U.S., that describes many large state universities. I would guess that the cost of land in cities is a big reason. EDIT: With many large universities enrolling tens of thousands of students, plus employing faculty and staff and supporting all the third parties…

If your definition of small town is relative to large urban hubs, sure. But, I wouldn't say many large state universities are in truly rural locations.

EDIT: To clarify, of course there are universities in rural areas. But I wouldn't generalize that a significant amount are in areas with a couple thousand residents, this is simply not the case. These are the kids being left behind, those whose entire lives revolve around small areas. They're much harder to pull away to the "big city", and with good reason.

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#96

Post by IntronExon »

freehunter wrote: post #90
IntronExon wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even an 30min from one of the 10 biggest cities on the USA, broadband is still unavailable to a majority, ambulance times are in hours, and school funding is increasingly disappearing. The first claim seems unlikely, unless that’s 30 minutes at the speed of sound. I’d need solid citations to bite. The second seems unlikely as well, and given how bad response times can be in disadvantaged parts of cities, I’d wonder i…

>The first claim seems unlikely, unless that’s 30 minutes at the speed of sound. It doesn't have to be a physical or technical limitation at all. It's a limitation of the cable monopolies not seeing profit in putting fiber or cable lines out there and there's no competition so if they don't, no one will. As for everything else you've said... I would like to introduce you to the concept of the tyranny of the majority.…

Rural populations treat themselves like shit, consistently voting along ideological lines for candidates who screw them horribly. Their kids leave, and the brain drain is real. That’s not being done to them, it’s done by them.

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#97

Post by bllguo »

QuarterReptile wrote: post #74
spamizbad wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those not in poverty what you describe is -- indirectly -- a feature not a bug Schools are disappearing because there is no tax base to support them, and the remaining residents tend to favor an austere government. There's also a degree of distrust of governmental organizations. There are a lot of small towns where, if the state government came in and said "We're going to build you a school for free and you won't…

I'm just going to point out regarding schools: if you let the state come build it for you, you're probably going to get a big, deadly dumpster fire of a school. It'll be a regional consolidated school so they can put a huge educational campus all in one place. It'll be far from any town because that's where the land is cheap. Everyone will have to choose between driving their kids to school or putting them on hour-lo…

Thanks for the perspective. And because of things like this, rural folk don't want "our" help. They fall further behind, become more insular and hateful. Self-reinforcing cycle. Solving these problems is extremely important and will likely involve harsh tradeoffs. Unfortunately, in the US it feels like we need some dramatic examples before people will finally accept that tradeoffs are necessary.

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#98

Post by Fomite »

Slansitartop wrote: post #42
lev99 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People in rural areas have less options to live with their parents while attending a college. People that live with their parents while going to college save a significant amount of money compared to people that live on their own. College costs are actually not the same for everyone. It's hard to find two people that have the same degree and paid exactly the same for it. It's easy to find two people eating the same b…

That's true, and actually amplifies the point I was trying to get across. A low rural cost of living doesn't help low-income rural kids afford college, since the college is likely in a higher income city area and priced accordingly.

Agricultural and land grant schools are often not in urban areas - and far closer to where rural kids are growing up, and have more helpful programs to help them in their actual careers.

Washington State University, for example, is vastly more affordable to live near than the University of Washington, and has agriculture, forestry and farming oriented majors, as well as all the ones you'd typically expect.

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#99

Post by thomastjeffery »

leggomylibro wrote: post #75
thomastjeffery wrote: post #57

If you live in a city, you can likely attend a college from your parents' house. For those of us in rural areas, that is not even remotely true. If you intend to attend college, but live in a rural area, you have to prepare for all the expenses of living on your own, on top of quickly rising college expenses. You need a place to live, a budget for food, possibly even transportation. There is also a general wealth dis…

Colleges tend to make it very easy to live in a new area, though. It's a problem that they've had to deal with for centuries, and one that they tend to be very sensitive towards. There are dormitories and meal plans, but those can be expensive. For the frugal, most universities have their own small housing departments which help students find safe and affordable housing in the area. But maybe there's a bit of a perso…

Yes, that is true, and it does help, but it doesn't make it as easy for someone from a rural area to go to college as it is for someone in an urban area.

My point is there are a lot of factors, and a lot of bias that keep a small, but significant portion of rural youth out of college. Let's not act like these factors don't exist because we take some action to counteract them.

Re: Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School Graduates

#100

Post by jacobolus »

throwaway0255 wrote: post #94

Most jobs don't require higher education. Most jobs that do require higher education don't actually make any use of the higher education. Are people who didn't follow the author up the ivory tower all failures who just fell through the cracks? What if some people are perfectly happy working in HVAC? These articles are always so condescending. The position that all people should by default go to college and that peopl…

Can you quote the part that you feel is condescending?

The text of the article seems largely straightforward and factual to me. It doesn’t say that there’s anything inherently bad about not going to college, but rather that not having a college degree has made it difficult for some people to find new careers in places where many types of labor are facing declining demand because of large structural forces, and that those communities are feeling a general malaise due to drug use, high unemployment, outward migration, falling incomes, etc. (a claim supported by evidence from polls and census data).

Are you saying that it is condescending for the “executive director of the Kentucky Valley Educational Cooperative” to be advising rural students to try college? Is it wrong for people from rural areas who got college degrees to spend their time advocating that other rural young people do the same?

I know several people who grew up in rural places and founding college and subsequent highly technical careers very rewarding. For some, it was explicitly seen as a way to escape their (to them, stifling feeling) rural community. I also know people who grew up in a city but didn’t like it and moved to rural areas as adults. Different people have different preferences.

If you are arguing that many jobs that currently require degrees shouldn’t, that seems like an orthogonal conversation not really touched on by this article; it’s not at all clear that the people profiled here would disagree with that.

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