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The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

theguardian.com

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Re: The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

#91

Post by verroq »

eloisant wrote: post #84
mjfl wrote: post #3

Why pay $2000 a month when you have the whole country you could live in for much less? Why should I have to pay increased taxes for your ignorance/provincialism? Is living in San Francisco a fundamental right? I grew up in Lincoln, Nebraska. I'd suggest that these people move there, for the low cost of living combined with the vibrant-enough economy. Unemployment was at 5% through the great recession . However, I fin…

The funny thing is that if they all did that, you wouldn't have anyone left to cook your food and clean your office. Then maybe the tech sector would realize they need to pay living wages for all the workers supporting their daily life. And a living wage in SV is much higher than the rest of the world.

Clearly not enough are leaving because otherwise the pay will naturally rise.

Re: The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

#92

Post by knightofmars »

elgenie wrote: post #65
d--b wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How? How do you move to Nebraska when you have $100/week for food? How do you find a job, when you have literally 0-day you can spend without working? Are there really than many jobs for people who flip burgers in Lincoln, Nebraska? And are people who flip burgers in Nebraska so much better?

> How do you move? A train or bus from the Bay Area to Nebraska will run around $100. That’s around the same amount as Bay Area rent costs for just the time spent on the train/bus during the trip. > How do you find a job? To start, “Help Wanted” signs and odd jobs in the usual places (e.g. Home Depot). Then, network or use free internet at public libraries to search for something better. > Are there really many jobs…

TL;DR: "They should just move." is a naive response to the issue presented.

Children and family/friends who are around to support you and also sometimes watch your children are often a reason. Could someone move themselves and their two children? Yes, it would cost $300 (to start). Then you'd need to find a place where all three of you could live before you've actually even found a job. This short-term place to live would likely be a motel, meaning you'd likely be unable to cook and spending more on food to feed yourself and your family. Then you need to figure out child care because you've lost the support network of family (and friends) who were living near you.

Physical mobility, moving from state to state, in this country is often much harder than the simplistic viewpoint people seem to give it.

If your perspective is that of a single individual with no dependents (even if you're poor) then you're going to think that physical mobility is relatively easy and everyone should be able to do it.

If your perspective is that of an individual with dependents then you're going to think that physical mobility could quickly become a challenge if you can't afford the upfront costs and short to mid term costs after you've moved and need to "settle" yourself.

There are a lot of, "Sure, but..." responses that usually come about with this type of discussion. "Sure, but why couldn't they temporarily go into debt? Their long-term earnings would put them in a better place eventually." and "Sure, but why aren't they applying for food and/or housing assistance or other programs at the location they're planning to move to." or "Sure, but why couldn't they have family watch their kids while they go to the new place and get setup."

The reality is those perspectives are from someone educated enough to understand economics, government programs and how the system works, and someone with a supportive well functioning family. All of which someone working a food-service job is unlikely to have.

Re: The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

#93

Post by dsfyu404ed »

mjfl wrote: post #3

Why pay $2000 a month when you have the whole country you could live in for much less? Why should I have to pay increased taxes for your ignorance/provincialism? Is living in San Francisco a fundamental right? I grew up in Lincoln, Nebraska. I'd suggest that these people move there, for the low cost of living combined with the vibrant-enough economy. Unemployment was at 5% through the great recession . However, I fin…

> I find whenever I suggest that, people act like if they move there they will be lynched - as if the place is a primitive wasteland inhabited by backwards rednecks carrying pitchforks. In reality, it is a modestly wealthy area filled with dentists, insurance providers, accountants, and other mid-level white collar workers

If you get a better image the first people to move there will be the rich ones who want out of SV and then turn the place into where they came from. Look what happened to Denver.

Re: The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

#94

Post by coldtea »

mjfl wrote: post #3

Why pay $2000 a month when you have the whole country you could live in for much less? Why should I have to pay increased taxes for your ignorance/provincialism? Is living in San Francisco a fundamental right? I grew up in Lincoln, Nebraska. I'd suggest that these people move there, for the low cost of living combined with the vibrant-enough economy. Unemployment was at 5% through the great recession . However, I fin…

>I grew up in Lincoln, Nebraska. I'd suggest that these people move there, for the low cost of living combined with the vibrant-enough economy.

What, the local taxidermist is hiring?

Re: The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

#95

Post by knightofmars »

foldr wrote: post #69
mjfl wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense. A person with a non-terrible credit rating can max-out around $16,000 using multiple credit cards. It's not a great idea, but I've seen it done, and confirmed that it's not a good idea. But if your alternative is a life of misery - escape! Also, it's highly unlikely that moving will be as expensive as $16,000 anyways. Perhaps $6,000-$7,000 for a small family of two?

Nope. Many people cannot get credit cards with credit limits that high. You are talking about the kind of credit available to someone who is earning a reasonable salary and has a long credit history. A person who meets that description is not likely to need to move for financial reasons in the first place. https://money.stackexchange.com/questions/6341/whats-the-ave... Also, it is just not a good idea to borrow $15,0…

^This, ^this, ^this. Thank you!

Re: The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

#96

Post by coldtea »

Alex3917 wrote: post #87
nostrademons wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You're more likely to die of boredom, but isn't that better than food stamps, and isn't boredom good if you want to raise a family?" That's pretty much it. The Bay Area gives you the chance to be on the cutting edge of change, which - for a certain personality type that tends to be overrepresented in the Bay Area - is often reason enough to live there. Most of the people who want a stable & boring environment to rai…

> There's also the issue where history has basically never been kind to groups of people who felt they could live a stable, boring existence while clinging to old ways and enjoying a high standard of living. As an interesting counter example, iirc one of the main groups of people who survived the Irish potato famine were the Celts, because they refused to give up the old ways of eating wild Clover and switch to growi…

>As an interesting counter example, iirc one of the main groups of people who survived the Irish potato famine were the Celts, because they refused to give up the old ways of eating wild Clover and switch to growing potatoes.

Does that mean that those dying of famine could just go eat some wild clover, but they didn't?

Doesn't sound right.

Re: The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

#97

Post by julesqs »

mjfl wrote: post #3

Why pay $2000 a month when you have the whole country you could live in for much less? Why should I have to pay increased taxes for your ignorance/provincialism? Is living in San Francisco a fundamental right? I grew up in Lincoln, Nebraska. I'd suggest that these people move there, for the low cost of living combined with the vibrant-enough economy. Unemployment was at 5% through the great recession . However, I fin…

you're not addressing the people in article at all. It literally references a single mother that works in kitchens and you're complaining about upper middle class people that sneer at Nebraska? what's wrong with you?

People live where jobs are, and a lot of them have reasons to stay in the Bay. She has children and a life. She's not a fucking software engineer that can just pick and move.

Re: The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

#98

Post by coldtea »

stinky wrote: post #26
mjfl wrote: post #3

Why pay $2000 a month when you have the whole country you could live in for much less? Why should I have to pay increased taxes for your ignorance/provincialism? Is living in San Francisco a fundamental right? I grew up in Lincoln, Nebraska. I'd suggest that these people move there, for the low cost of living combined with the vibrant-enough economy. Unemployment was at 5% through the great recession . However, I fin…

There is a solution. At the moment successful EU countries such as Germany, Sweden, Finland, Denmark are struggling with aging population and not enough people to fill blue colar jobs. I think EU should make it easier for US citizens who get any job here to move over. Americans in general are super hard working. Europe needs hard working people, while we can provide them with free universal healthcare, free universit…

>I think EU should make it easier for US citizens who get any job here to move over. Americans in general are super hard working. Europe needs hard working people

Assuming the words EU, Germany etc mean anything more than plots of land (e.g. a culture, a people, shared history etc), then merely replacing a population with another from abroad is not a solution to EU's or Germany's problem of aging population.

It might be a solution to "working hands" needed, but not to the general problem of "how we ensure there remains something like Germany in 2500 and is not just some geographical boundaries".

>Americans in general are super hard working.

Whereas Asians and Africans etc (common immigration origins into EU today) are lazy? In fact, as employers typically abuse them (based on their semi-legal status), they work hard even without all the benefits you suggest Americans workers would have (so from the perspective of the employers they're even better).

Re: The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

#99

Post by bo1024 »

Kurtz79 wrote: post #59
throwaway31231 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more than that. Money's value depends on everyone's collective attachment to it. The winners of a game remain so, only as long as a significant number of people are playing. Ditto with USD, ditto with BTC. UBI is one way to keep people playing; but I'm extremely wary of this idea. UBI without some sort of communal/anarchist/kibbutz-ian distributed structure binds society in yet another way. 'You're free as long…

I like the idea of UBI in theory, but I cannot imagine it won't have any impact on the cost of living. At the very least, it would force companies contracting minimum/low wage workers to raise wages substantially (because why work on a shitty job if I can have the same money for free ?), which in turn would mean a substantial increase in prices, which in turn would make UBI money not enough to survive for most people…

Maybe, maybe not. For companies that are making lots of profits, they wouldn't necessarily need to raise prices just because they raise wages. It's just that more of their revenue would be going back to the workers than where it's currently going (e.g. cash, shareholders, CEOs).

Re: The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

#100

Post by coldtea »

celdon25 wrote: post #79
arkh wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it would be a huge error. The US culture already pervades everywhere in the EU thanks to their medias. We really don't want them to invade us directly and out-birth our native population using our health care system and social benefits. They should stay in their country.

1. I can't picture that many Americans moving to Europe, even if it were easier. 2. Of those who do move, do you think they will be smart or stupid for doing so? Will Europe get America's best or worst people? 3. Isn't Europe full of Middle Eastern refugees and globalists? Is your view a minority or is it a common opinion of Europeans?

>Of those who do move, do you think they will be smart or stupid for doing so?

Parent didn't mention smart or stupid, he mentioned culture. Regardless of smarts, Americans wont be sharing the same culture with this or that European people.

>Isn't Europe full of Middle Eastern refugees and globalists?

Even if so, how would adding American immigration to that help?

>Is your view a minority or is it a common opinion of Europeans?*

We usually like our culture, thank you very much.

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