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The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

theguardian.com

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Re: The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

#81

Post by ratboy666 »

d--b wrote: post #42
mjfl wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is economically illiterate. If it got to the point where there was not enough people to fill necessary jobs around the city the wages would rise to attract more people. Right now the opposite is happening: there are too many people.

Too many people? Are you serious? San Francisco + Silicon valley has 3 million people. That's less than half of New York City. The amount of money the region makes is more than enough to support that population over that area...

Yes... too many people. If a software eng or ceo wanted to eat out, someone has to prepare the food. The person, in turn, has to live there.

So, if 86,000 is "poor" (defined as the minimum needed to live in the area), the person doing the food preparation has to be paid at least that. The "burger flipper" has to be paid that.

If people moved out, quickly the "burger flipper WOULD be paid that". But that, in turn, would attract "burger flippers" who simply compare the money. Resulting in high unemployment, and the need for food banks again.

Its the concentration of rich people that is the problem.

Re: The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

#82

Post by trentmb »

mjfl wrote: post #3

Why pay $2000 a month when you have the whole country you could live in for much less? Why should I have to pay increased taxes for your ignorance/provincialism? Is living in San Francisco a fundamental right? I grew up in Lincoln, Nebraska. I'd suggest that these people move there, for the low cost of living combined with the vibrant-enough economy. Unemployment was at 5% through the great recession . However, I fin…

> You're more likely to die of boredom

Who are these people? Having lived in both rural and urban environments, I don't think I've ever succumbed to boredom.

Re: The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

#83

Post by beojan »

stinky wrote: post #26
mjfl wrote: post #3

Why pay $2000 a month when you have the whole country you could live in for much less? Why should I have to pay increased taxes for your ignorance/provincialism? Is living in San Francisco a fundamental right? I grew up in Lincoln, Nebraska. I'd suggest that these people move there, for the low cost of living combined with the vibrant-enough economy. Unemployment was at 5% through the great recession . However, I fin…

There is a solution. At the moment successful EU countries such as Germany, Sweden, Finland, Denmark are struggling with aging population and not enough people to fill blue colar jobs. I think EU should make it easier for US citizens who get any job here to move over. Americans in general are super hard working. Europe needs hard working people, while we can provide them with free universal healthcare, free universit…

> I think EU should make it easier for US citizens who get any job here to move over.

Just as soon as the US does the same for EU citizens.

Re: The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

#84

Post by eloisant »

mjfl wrote: post #3

Why pay $2000 a month when you have the whole country you could live in for much less? Why should I have to pay increased taxes for your ignorance/provincialism? Is living in San Francisco a fundamental right? I grew up in Lincoln, Nebraska. I'd suggest that these people move there, for the low cost of living combined with the vibrant-enough economy. Unemployment was at 5% through the great recession . However, I fin…

The funny thing is that if they all did that, you wouldn't have anyone left to cook your food and clean your office.

Then maybe the tech sector would realize they need to pay living wages for all the workers supporting their daily life. And a living wage in SV is much higher than the rest of the world.

Re: The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

#85

Post by paganel »

trentmb wrote: post #82
mjfl wrote: post #3

Why pay $2000 a month when you have the whole country you could live in for much less? Why should I have to pay increased taxes for your ignorance/provincialism? Is living in San Francisco a fundamental right? I grew up in Lincoln, Nebraska. I'd suggest that these people move there, for the low cost of living combined with the vibrant-enough economy. Unemployment was at 5% through the great recession . However, I fin…

> You're more likely to die of boredom Who are these people? Having lived in both rural and urban environments, I don't think I've ever succumbed to boredom.

Never set foot in the States, so is not a direct comparison, but as an European who prefers living in a big city compared to living in my parents' village, which borders the lower Danube, I can say that the village is certainly nice and dandy, but it doesn't have theater shows, doesn't have cinemas, doesn't have cafes, doesn't have bookstores, doesn't have (decent) sports teams, doesn't have countless streets on where one can lose him/herself walking, and, most important of all, doesn't have people. Yeah, rural life is indeed boring for many people until a certain age (I eventually plan to retire to my parents' village if I reach 60).

Re: The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

#86

Post by cantankerous »

mjfl wrote: post #3

Why pay $2000 a month when you have the whole country you could live in for much less? Why should I have to pay increased taxes for your ignorance/provincialism? Is living in San Francisco a fundamental right? I grew up in Lincoln, Nebraska. I'd suggest that these people move there, for the low cost of living combined with the vibrant-enough economy. Unemployment was at 5% through the great recession . However, I fin…

He's right about one thing. You will die of boredom in Lincoln. There are plenty of other nearby Midwestern cities with character and interesting stuff to do (and people to see). Omaha and Kansas City are a couple. I'd probably pick Des Moines over Lincoln, too. It really is as described: sprawling new developments on old farmland in a (sort of) Big 10 college town.

A lot of folks in the Valley who are the hardest hit by these economic changes grew up in California. It's ironic to me that somebody from the Midwest move there and then criticize the residents for not moving to where they moved away from.

Re: The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

#87

Post by Alex3917 »

nostrademons wrote: post #27
mjfl wrote: post #3

Why pay $2000 a month when you have the whole country you could live in for much less? Why should I have to pay increased taxes for your ignorance/provincialism? Is living in San Francisco a fundamental right? I grew up in Lincoln, Nebraska. I'd suggest that these people move there, for the low cost of living combined with the vibrant-enough economy. Unemployment was at 5% through the great recession . However, I fin…

"You're more likely to die of boredom, but isn't that better than food stamps, and isn't boredom good if you want to raise a family?" That's pretty much it. The Bay Area gives you the chance to be on the cutting edge of change, which - for a certain personality type that tends to be overrepresented in the Bay Area - is often reason enough to live there. Most of the people who want a stable & boring environment to rai…

> There's also the issue where history has basically never been kind to groups of people who felt they could live a stable, boring existence while clinging to old ways and enjoying a high standard of living.

As an interesting counter example, iirc one of the main groups of people who survived the Irish potato famine were the Celts, because they refused to give up the old ways of eating wild Clover and switch to growing potatoes.

Generally I agree though.

EDIT:

source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1UJvl4JeCo

Re: The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

#88

Post by azernik »

nbtdev wrote: post #60
d--b wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too many people? Are you serious? San Francisco + Silicon valley has 3 million people. That's less than half of New York City. The amount of money the region makes is more than enough to support that population over that area...

There are 7 million in the 9- county Bay Area, and having lived there for ten years, that is the stat that matters. http://www.bayareacensus.ca.gov/ Cost of living on the peninsula has already pushed many people to the east and south and even then you don't get much of a break. Land use restrictions mean there is very little new land on which to build and having to jump through eleventy different legal hurdles to do…

New York City (the city proper, not including the suburbs) has that many people in a fraction of the area.

Re: The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

#89

Post by valisystem »

stinky wrote: post #26
mjfl wrote: post #3

Why pay $2000 a month when you have the whole country you could live in for much less? Why should I have to pay increased taxes for your ignorance/provincialism? Is living in San Francisco a fundamental right? I grew up in Lincoln, Nebraska. I'd suggest that these people move there, for the low cost of living combined with the vibrant-enough economy. Unemployment was at 5% through the great recession . However, I fin…

There is a solution. At the moment successful EU countries such as Germany, Sweden, Finland, Denmark are struggling with aging population and not enough people to fill blue colar jobs. I think EU should make it easier for US citizens who get any job here to move over. Americans in general are super hard working. Europe needs hard working people, while we can provide them with free universal healthcare, free universit…

> I think EU should make it easier for US citizens who get any job here to move over.

I'm pretty sure that any employable american can achieve that without hard efforts, and AFAIK most welfare is granted to salaried people, except for unemployment allowance. Same with education, some countries are equal (very low) tuitions no-question-asked.

For hardly employable 'hard worker' american, I'm pretty sure that are plenty of hard working immigration candidate to fill that. And there's no reason that low wages jobs will end better life condition for americans than others, and end up to the same problems that often comes with poverty : crime, social resent and injustice, just like home. If you think that americans will work harder and paid better that an struggling immigrant, I think you are highly delusional, low wages hard just enough to live, and nobody will pay more for the same job.

Re: The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

#90

Post by robert_foss »

mjfl wrote: post #3

Why pay $2000 a month when you have the whole country you could live in for much less? Why should I have to pay increased taxes for your ignorance/provincialism? Is living in San Francisco a fundamental right? I grew up in Lincoln, Nebraska. I'd suggest that these people move there, for the low cost of living combined with the vibrant-enough economy. Unemployment was at 5% through the great recession . However, I fin…

Why? Because you need a job, and moving to a new place is expensive.

Who do you think serves you lattes at Starbucks? Millionaires? Low paying work needs to be done, even in SF.

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