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Tesla's mass firings spread to SolarCity

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Re: Tesla's mass firings spread to SolarCity

#91

Post by gozur88 »

jerf wrote: post #5
frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #2

Sources said that HR department representatives told staff in one office they were being let go due to problematic "conduct with peers." When questioned, an ex-employee said, HR declined to specify any details about the alleged poor conduct, which had never been previously discussed. Is this pre-empting a union push?

"Is this pre-empting a union push?" Honest clarification request: Do you to suggest/worry that they are classifying "agitating for a union" as problematic "conduct with peers"? (If so, I expect we'll hear if that's the case soon, with a chance of hearing that even if it's not the case. That is a storyline the media would be salivating to run.)

That wouldn't make much sense, though. The last thing you'd want to do if you were trying to keep out a union is behave in a way your employees would see as tyrannical.

Re: Tesla's mass firings spread to SolarCity

#92

Post by SubiculumCode »

dgritsko wrote: post #59
SubiculumCode wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes, indeed yes. Not always. If you want to live in a black and white world go ahead. Best of luck to you. In any case, as I said, I am torn. That is why I advise that anyone that works for them be dedicated to the cause. Because while a lot of startups and the like profess to "change the world" Elon Musk's enterprises ARE changing the world to the kind of world I want to live in. Sometime visions need sacrific…

Scott Alexander had a blog post recently discussing "moral offsets" and the distinction between axiology, morality, and law. It helped clarify my own mental framework and vocabulary for thinking through these sorts of "do the ends justify the means?" issues. I found it to be interesting food for thought and you may feel likewise, it's a very thought-provoking read (as is nearly everything on Scott's site). http://sla…

Thanks for the link. Indeed a post for thought.

Re: Tesla's mass firings spread to SolarCity

#93

Post by pdimitar »

gowld wrote: post #88
pdimitar wrote: post #83

- It's not mass firing. It's not even 4% of the workforce. - So, employees were "surprised". As most people who are fired, ever, in any company and epoch. How is this news at all? - Recalling 11,000 units might not at all be connected with layoffs. Implying otherwise is a cheap yellow press journalism. - "Citing fears of retaliation from Tesla". Yeah, because Tesla definitely is known for pursuing people like they're…

"Mass layoff" is defined by the United States Department of Labor as 50 or more workers laid off from the same company around the same time.

Might be legally correct. Still gives the wrong impression because most people aren't lawyers. Should outline percentage, not absolute numbers, IMO.

Re: Tesla's mass firings spread to SolarCity

#94

Post by SubiculumCode »

dragonwriter wrote: post #72
SubiculumCode wrote: post #16

I am pretty pro-union. However, in the case of Musk's enterprises, where there is this larger goal that is finally seeming to become possible, I am torn. I feel that anyone that works at these places should know and be a zealot for the Cause...but I suppose that Elon Musk probably should share his stakes with them a bit more, in that case. edit: I believe workers should be treated fairly, but I also want us to go to…

> However, in the case of Musk's enterprises, where there is this larger goal that is finally seeming to become possible, I am torn. I feel that anyone that works at these places should know and be a zealot for the Cause... While critics often mock the “cult” of Musk, his defenders usually deny the characterization. You rarely see such an explicit acknowledgment and endorsement of it. The honesty is refreshing, I gue…

'Cult of Musk' suggests it is about Musk, and not about the cause (of going to Mars).

I think we can all agree that some types of work are dangerous and poorly paid, but people choose to do it because they believe in a cause. For example, relief work in war-zones. I just tend to think of Space-X as a geeky way of doing that.

Re: Tesla's mass firings spread to SolarCity

#95

Post by yeezul »

gowld wrote: post #87
moduspol wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. Calling 3.6% a "mass firing" to me looks like pushing a narrative.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Layoff > "Mass layoff" is defined by the United States Department of Labor as 50 or more workers laid off from the same company around the same time.

That's a pretty inaccurate way set point a term.

In SolarCity case, that means 0.15% of their workforce.

Re: Tesla's mass firings spread to SolarCity

#96

Post by SubiculumCode »

ctdonath wrote: post #63
SubiculumCode wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes, indeed yes. Not always. If you want to live in a black and white world go ahead. Best of luck to you. In any case, as I said, I am torn. That is why I advise that anyone that works for them be dedicated to the cause. Because while a lot of startups and the like profess to "change the world" Elon Musk's enterprises ARE changing the world to the kind of world I want to live in. Sometime visions need sacrific…

Which cause? Employees are free to convert their paycheck into stocks. The better they (as a whole) do, the more profit each gets.

Not if they are not being paid enough to have the capital to invest. That is why I suggested that in lieu of increased pay, that workers be further compensated in more stock

Re: Tesla's mass firings spread to SolarCity

#97

Post by greglindahl »

Bartweiss wrote: post #34
mtgx wrote: post #11

If there was one division at Tesla that deserved lay-offs, surely it was SolarCity? I remember how everyone was talking about what a bad move Tesla made in acquiring SolarCity, because the company was a mess and unprofitable. I've also heard stories about how aggressive and pushy SolarCity's sales people were with customers, which ended-up giving the company an increasingly worse reputation.

This seems at minimum possible. The general consensus at the time of the SolarCity acquisition was something like "that's a failing venture, but the products and manufacturing capacity are relevant to Tesla". And now we've seen Powerwall synced up with SolarCity tech, but no major leaps forward for SolarCity itself. Would it be all that surprising if this was a move to quietly wind down SolarCity as a separate concer…

The new solar roof thing from Solar City may or may not end up being a major leap forward, but it is a product of the Tesla merger.

Re: Tesla's mass firings spread to SolarCity

#98

Post by _m8fo »

pdimitar wrote: post #93
gowld wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Mass layoff" is defined by the United States Department of Labor as 50 or more workers laid off from the same company around the same time.

Might be legally correct. Still gives the wrong impression because most people aren't lawyers. Should outline percentage, not absolute numbers, IMO.

If the unemployment rate increased 3.6% tomorrow, I guess you wouldn't think it's a big deal, right? After all, it's not even 4%! The lack of sympathy people show these days. Sheesh.

Re: Tesla's mass firings spread to SolarCity

#99

Post by GuB-42 »

montyboy_us wrote: post #21

SpaceX, Tesla, and SolarCity: ponzi schemes that have a little tech behind them and pull on our heartstrings.

Hyperloop could conceivably be a scam, but SpaceX, Tesla and SolarCity are much too real to be ponzi schemes.

A Ponzi scheme is essentially a investment that promises you a too good to be true return (ex:10% per month). It is actually paid by late investors, unless you "reinvest" it. It is typically backed by promises : shares of a company that doesn't produce anything yet, land that will supposedly become extremely valuable, etc...

The companies you cited have nothing in common with Ponzi schemes. While profitability is debatable, they have real customers and produce real goods and services. They also don't promise you anything in term of ROI. Of course, Elon Musk will tell you his companies are the best, but that's just standard advertising.

Re: Tesla's mass firings spread to SolarCity

#100

Post by kunaalarya »

dtparr wrote: post #80
skgoa wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The stock price has dropped by $64 since the start of the week BTW. It was at $325 when I checked earlier today and came from a high of $389.

That's not correct. $389 is its all-time high. It closed at ~$345 on Friday and opened ~$350 on Monday.

it's literally $325 right now so what's not correct?
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