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Silicon Valley Is Not Your Friend

nytimes.com

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Re: Silicon Valley Is Not Your Friend

#91

Post by GVIrish »

logfromblammo wrote: post #40
baron816 wrote: post #8

I'm no fan of Facebook, but I don't get why they're to blame for Russia's meddling in the election. It's hard to believe that they were aware of what was going on and allowed it to continue because they were making money off of it. The money they were getting was a pittance, all things considered.

So people are angry that a media engine was used as a platform to deliver content designed to sway their opinions and behaviors using various forms of mendacity, exaggeration, obfuscation, prevarication, suggestion, dark psychology, titillation, and propaganda. Doesn't that describe all advertising? Also, shouldn't we be slightly happy that US tech companies were able to export US-audience advertising capacity to Rus…

Well the first problem is that is a crime to allow a foreign national (which includes companies) to purchase political ads in US campaigns (Federal Election Campaign Act). If Russia efforts to buy ads on Facebook were sufficiently masked maybe Facebook wouldn't be responsible, but some indications are that some of these ads were purchased by clearly Russia entities.

Second potential problem is that it is alleged that Facebook employees were embedded in the Trump campaign's digital efforts. This would not necessarily be a problem in and off itself, but there is a lot of rumbling about stolen voter data that was used for microtargetting on Facebook. If Facebook had knowledge of data that was illegally obtained by a hostile foreign intelligence service, there could be some additional culpability.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Not Your Friend

#92

Post by pm90 »

adventured wrote: post #12
hprotagonist wrote: post #2

I grew up reading 2600 and the jargon file and early slashdot, and hanging out on freenode and usenet, so i've been indoctrinated in this way of thinking this way for 20 years. In my experience, the people who built the net are among its sharpest and most vocal critics, and there's some cause for that. I'm not sure what the implications of everyone else thinking this way will be.

In a word, regulation. Tech has been mostly hands-off politically, an oasis of limited targeted regulation, over the post WW2 era. While the rest of the US economy has practically been regulated to death. Bloomberg had an opinion piece a few days ago, noting how several of the tech giants (eg Microsoft, Apple, Google, Facebook, Oracle, Cisco) had higher profit margins than the S&P 500 average and argued that it was d…

This is not a good diagnosis of why Tech companies have such high profit margins IMO. Software is incredibly scalable: once you build a software, you sell it to millions of people, or build a platform that's used by millions of people. Tech is building off the shift of the economy to more automation and less dependence on labor. There's also the thing where entire new markets are being created and Tech companies are the only participants (e.g. rideshare, search etc.).

In most instances reasonable regulations allow for more innovation in the economy by making it easier for smaller companies to compete with big businesses, and to make sure that businesses don't hurt the societies and economies they operate in.

While there are good instances of over regulations, much like the myth of the welfare queen, I think its much overblown, and not an accurate diagnosis for the problems businesses are facing today in America.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Not Your Friend

#93

Post by [deleted] »

cromwellian wrote: post #68

The reporter asks a rhetorical question of whether self driving cars should be stopped. Did he ask the car companies whether they should have been stopped selling a machine that helps kill tens of thousands a year and pollute the global environment? I mean, lets get a damn perspective here: traditional non-silicon valley companies continue to make and sell things which poison and kill people and because of that, ther…

[deleted]

Re: Silicon Valley Is Not Your Friend

#94

Post by KirinDave »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #86
KirinDave wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it that folks think that paying for a product somehow fixes this? You can pay up front for the product and still be part of the product. Look at the game Overwatch, which is exactly the free to play model of gaming (where 20% of the player base is 80% of the revenue) with an upfront fee! People who don't spend lots on loot boxes are there for to provide entertainment and interactivity to those who do. And unli…

> Look at the game Overwatch Or Nest [1]. Or Sonos [2]. [1] https://www.wired.com/2016/04/nests-hub-shutdown-proves-your... [2] https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/08/22/sonos_forces_revise...

I... mentioned Nest.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Not Your Friend

#95

Post by vasilipupkin »

danenania wrote: post #88
vasilipupkin wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but to somehow blame them for the stupidity of people that can be swayed by a ridiculous facebook ad is itself ridiculous. Facebook ads is not why Clinton lost to Trump and continuing to pretend like it is is just dumb.

We aren't just talking about some random FB ads. These were targeted specifically at undecided voters in swing states based on data from hacked voter rolls. It was a surgical operation designed to shift the balance while leaving a small footprint. It obviously wasn't the only factor, but given the extremely thin margins in the pivotal states, it's not unreasonable to wonder whether it could have been the straw that b…

you are talking about this as if somebody got into the brain of those undecided voters and surgically forced them to vote one way or the other. It was their decision, made of free will and if a nonsensical ad can sway them, the responsibility is theirs !

at some point human beings have to take responsibility for their own decisions instead of blaming everyone else.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Not Your Friend

#97

Post by thesagan »

nradov wrote: post #84
cmsonger wrote: post #22

"For profit organizations are not your friend" is usually true. It's not restricted to tech companies or silicon valley.

Perhaps I'm just naïve but I spend a lot of money on sporting goods and the companies I buy from seem like friends. Sure there's a profit motive, but I think our interests are pretty well aligned.

Friends sometimes let you borrow for free when some trust exists. (My friends let me borrow a lot.)

Re: Silicon Valley Is Not Your Friend

#98

Post by hprotagonist »

Fnoord wrote: post #77
hprotagonist wrote: post #2

I grew up reading 2600 and the jargon file and early slashdot, and hanging out on freenode and usenet, so i've been indoctrinated in this way of thinking this way for 20 years. In my experience, the people who built the net are among its sharpest and most vocal critics, and there's some cause for that. I'm not sure what the implications of everyone else thinking this way will be.

You also grew up reading Snow Crash wink Some things just don't make sense to me. Why are the default settings for something like Facebook public? Why not friends by default?

I am inordinately proud of the fact that I discovered neal stephenson all by myself -- and I read Cryptonomicon at one of those formative ages where it bakes itself into your head at a pretty deep level.

Judging by their business decisions, I have come to believe that a bunch of other would-be Secret Admirers work at some but not all tech companies, and this does inform my choice of services. I bet you $5 there were Tombstone jokes at Apple during the san bernadino fiasco.

edit: and people like Moxie are doing their very best John Cantrell impersonations and I am extremely grateful for this.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Not Your Friend

#99

Post by GVIrish »

baron816 wrote: post #8

I'm no fan of Facebook, but I don't get why they're to blame for Russia's meddling in the election. It's hard to believe that they were aware of what was going on and allowed it to continue because they were making money off of it. The money they were getting was a pittance, all things considered.

> I'm no fan of Facebook, but I don't get why they're to blame for Russia's meddling in the election.

Allowing a foreign national to purchase political ads is a crime. If Facebook knew the buyer for these political ads was Russian, they were breaking the law. $100k may seem like a pittance, but it is very unlikely that it constitutes the entirety of Russia's efforts on Facebook.

If there was any deeper collaboration with Russian persons seeking to influence the election there may be other crimes that were broken. This stuff is serious, especially considering the potential impact these efforts may have had.

And judging by how both Facebook and Twitter are soft-pedaling, scrubbing data, and not answering questions, both organizations probably know they're in potential legal hot water.

Re: Silicon Valley Is Not Your Friend

#100

Post by dasil003 »

alexasmyths wrote: post #15
baron816 wrote: post #8

I'm no fan of Facebook, but I don't get why they're to blame for Russia's meddling in the election. It's hard to believe that they were aware of what was going on and allowed it to continue because they were making money off of it. The money they were getting was a pittance, all things considered.

The press swings memes in a pendulum. They hype, they hate, they hype, they hate. Right now, it seems their getting on finger wagging band wagon. When in 'hype' mode - the littlest, most innocuous thing is 'game changing'. When in 'hate mode' - the littlest, most incidental act is 'an example of the entire failure of the Valley'. Hype: Google Glasses 'will change how we interact as people' Hate: 'An Uber rider refuse…

The only problem with your theory is that The Media is not a monolithic entity.
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