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Is Trump mulling Peter Thiel for a top intelligence advisory post?

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Re: Is Trump mulling Peter Thiel for a top intelligence advisory post?

#91

Post by KGIII »

croon wrote: post #76
KGIII wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, a fantasy world. A world which isn't going to exist, presented as a serious topic. Maybe idiot was too strong a word, but it was shorter than the alternatives. If she'd left it as a work of fantasy, and not encouraged adoption, I'd be less inclined to be disrespectful. However, she gave many talks on the subject and pushed her views as serious political philosophy. This was adopted by others and has pretty much…

I'll also add to that, that the notion of an "opposite" to something so complicated as a _world_ is idiotic, because in running away from the bad of that one, you run into bad in the other. TL;DR: The "opposite" of a bad world isn't necessarily a good world.

Yeah, but sometimes we have to reduce things to a more simple nature as things must be optimized for brevity and attention span.

It really is a broad spectrum and it's quite possible to have both authoritarian ideals in one category while having libertarian values in a different category.

I do favor the simplicity of the political compass with four points. It has a specific name but I can't think of it at the moment. It is simplistic, and reductionist, but it is handy enough for a forum post and adequate for generalized conversations.

But, as you suggest, it's much more complicated than that. We humans really do like putting things into boxes, or so it seems.

Re: Is Trump mulling Peter Thiel for a top intelligence advisory post?

#92

Post by varjag »

Kevve wrote: post #75
pryce wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course not. But Thiel didn't write a book simply expressing a preference against multiculturalism, he wrote a book claiming that multiculturalism exists to destroy white culture. 'White culture is under threat' is a core belief of white supremacists.

>'White culture is under threat' is a core belief of white supremacists. It's also a well known fact. All you have to do is look at the demographic changes in Western countries. Wanting white culture to survive still doesn't make one a white supremacist. I even want Japanese culture to survive. Does this make me a Japanese supremacist?

> Wanting white culture to survive still doesn't make one a white supremacist.

You change the original point. Professing "white culture" is under threat and that other cultures should survive someplace else does indeed make you a white supremacist.

The U.S. was multi-cultural from the start, even if some cultures (natives or blacks) wanted nothing to do with it. This is what made it later stand out and attract people all over the world. You can't re-neg it without turning into a genocidal shithole.

Re: Is Trump mulling Peter Thiel for a top intelligence advisory post?

#93

Post by maccard »

wwweston wrote: post #71
jules wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thiel is hardly alone in this view. Many libertarians are in favour of a constitutional republic over a democracy where 51% of the people have absolute power.

It's one thing to consider problems that might be in play if a bare majority had arbitrary power. Worth doing, but then again, an odd point to underscore considering that such considerations are already well-woven into most western democracies, including the United States. It's another thing to propose that where representative government itself is in tension with capital... the problem is representation. Or perhaps…

> It's one thing to consider problems that might be in play if a bare majority had arbitrary power. ..... including the United States

The last election for the POTUS had the declared winner elected by an overall loss of 3mm votes.

The UK is plowing ahead with a hard brexit with a 52% majority on a 72% turnout (38% of the electorate explicitly said they wanted to leave), with a minority government propped up by a bribe with a minor political party from Northern Ireland.

I'm sure I can find more examples (and I'm aware that I'm cherry picking examples too), but to say that that you require a "supermajority" in most western countries isn't strictly true. (excuse the phrasing)

Re: Is Trump mulling Peter Thiel for a top intelligence advisory post?

#94

Post by jevgeni »

Kevve wrote: post #75
pryce wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course not. But Thiel didn't write a book simply expressing a preference against multiculturalism, he wrote a book claiming that multiculturalism exists to destroy white culture. 'White culture is under threat' is a core belief of white supremacists.

>'White culture is under threat' is a core belief of white supremacists. It's also a well known fact. All you have to do is look at the demographic changes in Western countries. Wanting white culture to survive still doesn't make one a white supremacist. I even want Japanese culture to survive. Does this make me a Japanese supremacist?

White culture does not exist.

Re: Is Trump mulling Peter Thiel for a top intelligence advisory post?

#95

Post by croon »

Kevve wrote: post #75
pryce wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course not. But Thiel didn't write a book simply expressing a preference against multiculturalism, he wrote a book claiming that multiculturalism exists to destroy white culture. 'White culture is under threat' is a core belief of white supremacists.

>'White culture is under threat' is a core belief of white supremacists. It's also a well known fact. All you have to do is look at the demographic changes in Western countries. Wanting white culture to survive still doesn't make one a white supremacist. I even want Japanese culture to survive. Does this make me a Japanese supremacist?

> It's also a well known fact. All you have to do is look at the demographic changes in Western countries.

What do you mean by this?

Are you saying that American culture is "white" culture? If so, then you might want to do some self-reflection.

Re: Is Trump mulling Peter Thiel for a top intelligence advisory post?

#96

Post by dagw »

KGIII wrote: post #80
dagw wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are free to kill me, you are not at liberty to do so. If you try to kill me, I have the right to defend myself. ... Liberties are for everyone, not just those who can afford them. How do you square these two lines of reasoning? If you can afford making sure I get killed and I cannot afford to defend myself against you what difference my theoretical right to defend myself make? If the only rights I have are the on…

By making murder illegal and punishable in a court of law. The goal is equal opportunity, not equal outcomes. Bad things are still going to happen, abuses will always happen. The goal is to minimize the risks and to ensure a punitive response to unlawful behavior. The goal being to maximize your ability to enjoy your freedoms does not mean you'll be able to maximize them as much as someone else with greater assets. A…

You should still be allowed to swim in the lake and enjoy the park.

That sounds naive to me. Without regulation on boat traffic what is to stop it becoming unfeasible to swim in the lake due to all the giant boats and all their docks clogging the lake. Being allowed to do something doesn't matter much if actually doing so in practice is impossible or highly impractical.

Re: Is Trump mulling Peter Thiel for a top intelligence advisory post?

#97

Post by remarkEon »

pryce wrote: post #65
remarkEon wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On your first point, that doesn't seem like an idea unique to the Far Right at all. Plenty of Left Wing friends of mine don't think Capitalism works within a Democracy (though I'm sure for different reasons than Thiel). On your second, I think the virtue of Multiculturalism is at least worth debating. If he calls it "evil" that's not something I'd agree with, but that would align with a lot of Far Right thought. As f…

It isn't that Thiel thinks 'Capitalism and Democracy are incompatible' that makes him right-wing, it is that given he believes they are incompatible, he concludes Democracy should be discarded to preserve Capitalism, rather than the other way around. This is a far-right view.

Interesting. Can you link something that more explicitly explains this view? I've long been skeptical of the virtue of Capitalism so I'm open to exploring the other end of that spectrum.

Re: Is Trump mulling Peter Thiel for a top intelligence advisory post?

#98

Post by dagw »

Kevve wrote: post #75
pryce wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course not. But Thiel didn't write a book simply expressing a preference against multiculturalism, he wrote a book claiming that multiculturalism exists to destroy white culture. 'White culture is under threat' is a core belief of white supremacists.

>'White culture is under threat' is a core belief of white supremacists. It's also a well known fact. All you have to do is look at the demographic changes in Western countries. Wanting white culture to survive still doesn't make one a white supremacist. I even want Japanese culture to survive. Does this make me a Japanese supremacist?

Not too long ago many people in the US would have claimed that White Culture died the day the Irish, Italians or Polish started to be considered 'white'

Re: Is Trump mulling Peter Thiel for a top intelligence advisory post?

#99

Post by boomboomsubban »

KGIII wrote: post #84
iand wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anarchists believe in no laws. This is incorrect. Anarchists believe in no rulers. Laws can be agreed between consenting parties.

Are those really laws? They don't sound like laws to me. Laws are enforced and don't require consent of everyone subjected to them. I'm not sure those qualify as laws, but as agreements.

Why does a law require a lack of consent? Consent makes it enforceable, if you don't consent than you shouldn't be in a situation where the law can be broken.

Re: Is Trump mulling Peter Thiel for a top intelligence advisory post?

#100

Post by croon »

dogruck wrote: post #12
intopieces wrote: post #2

> Thiel reportedly doubled-down and immediately donated $1.25 million to Trump’s campaign Can someone describe corruption and help me understand how it differs from this situation?

Proper corruption typically includes: * Lack of transparency. It's tough to be corrupt in plain sight. * Payment to someone who currently possesses power -- not a public contribution to a political candidate seeking a new office of power.

> * Payment to someone who currently possesses power -- not a public contribution to a political candidate seeking a new office of power.

The difference is negligible if you consider it a hedge on that person getting into office, upon which time you get rewarded through appointment. A theme that has become a pattern.

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