Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Is Trump mulling Peter Thiel for a top intelligence advisory post?

vanityfair.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 172 posts

Re: Is Trump mulling Peter Thiel for a top intelligence advisory post?

#21

Post by confounded »

rrggrr wrote: post #7

Rumours of Theils maleavolence are greatly exaggerated. His bio better resembles a modern day Ross Perot, libertarian and all. Network analysis and data mining inteilligence toolsets were used in the intel comminity lkng before Palantir, same as mercenaries were vighting foreign wars ling before Blackwater. A real problem in government is lack of domain expetise in oversight. Heres a chance to have some of that if th…

Perot was in favor of direct democracy, Theil believes that democracy is making things too difficult for capitalism. Perot was in favor of increasing taxes on the rich, Theil is effectively a feudalist.

Both men were billionaires who invested in computing and were involved in the 'military industrial complex'. But the word 'libertarian' has been dragged so far to the right in the US in recent years that it's not a meaningful category to compare the two with.

Re: Is Trump mulling Peter Thiel for a top intelligence advisory post?

#22

Post by Taniwha »

Turing_Machine wrote: post #16
intopieces wrote: post #2

> Thiel reportedly doubled-down and immediately donated $1.25 million to Trump’s campaign Can someone describe corruption and help me understand how it differs from this situation?

Personally, I find an explicit campaign contribution to be considerably less sleazy than paying a politician hundreds of thousands of dollars for "making a speech" (a very popular ruse with the Clintons, and now Obama). Less sleazy in that campaign funds have to be accounted for (i.e., actually spent on the campaign, or retained for a future campaign) while "speaking fees" can be spent any way you want.

This is a very American point of view, in the rest of the western world we consider buying off politicians to be be immoral, a corrosive thing inimical with democracy

Re: Is Trump mulling Peter Thiel for a top intelligence advisory post?

#23

Post by rhcom2 »

Turing_Machine wrote: post #16
intopieces wrote: post #2

> Thiel reportedly doubled-down and immediately donated $1.25 million to Trump’s campaign Can someone describe corruption and help me understand how it differs from this situation?

Personally, I find an explicit campaign contribution to be considerably less sleazy than paying a politician hundreds of thousands of dollars for "making a speech" (a very popular ruse with the Clintons, and now Obama). Less sleazy in that campaign funds have to be accounted for (i.e., actually spent on the campaign, or retained for a future campaign) while "speaking fees" can be spent any way you want.

Paid speeches aren't partisan, nearly every politician does it - from Giuliani and Bush to Clinton and Gore. I don't even think you can use funds like that as you describe. You'd have to loan the money to your campaign to get past the FEC.

Re: Is Trump mulling Peter Thiel for a top intelligence advisory post?

#24

Post by confounded »

remarkEon wrote: post #20
confounded wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but why not Facebook? Early investor, made him untold millions, tight with zucc, who's sacrificed personal capital to keep him on the board (despite his far-right politics).

Can you explain how his politics are "far-right"? I don't really consider Libertarianism an element of what's become the emergence of right wing authoritarianism.

- He believes that capitalism and democracy are incompatible.

- He is strongly opposed to multiculturalism, and attributes many evils to it. Though when put under pressure to justify some of the views he published in his book on the subject (such as that women reporting rape is an organized leftist conspiracy to undermine white men), he simply said he never thought them. Genius!

- He promotes political figures on the far right of US politics, like race-baiter Ann Coulter.

Whether you consider him a libertarian or not, I can't do much about. Normally I'm against Americans abusing words with perfectly well established meanings for marketing purposes, but I fear this one is a lost cause.

Re: Is Trump mulling Peter Thiel for a top intelligence advisory post?

#25

Post by SapphireSun »

confounded wrote: post #21
rrggrr wrote: post #7

Rumours of Theils maleavolence are greatly exaggerated. His bio better resembles a modern day Ross Perot, libertarian and all. Network analysis and data mining inteilligence toolsets were used in the intel comminity lkng before Palantir, same as mercenaries were vighting foreign wars ling before Blackwater. A real problem in government is lack of domain expetise in oversight. Heres a chance to have some of that if th…

Perot was in favor of direct democracy, Theil believes that democracy is making things too difficult for capitalism. Perot was in favor of increasing taxes on the rich, Theil is effectively a feudalist. Both men were billionaires who invested in computing and were involved in the 'military industrial complex'. But the word 'libertarian' has been dragged so far to the right in the US in recent years that it's not a me…

Would it be fair to say that US libertarians are anarcho-capitalists while the leftist libertarians are anarcho-syndicalists?

Re: Is Trump mulling Peter Thiel for a top intelligence advisory post?

#26

Post by remarkEon »

confounded wrote: post #24
remarkEon wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain how his politics are "far-right"? I don't really consider Libertarianism an element of what's become the emergence of right wing authoritarianism.

- He believes that capitalism and democracy are incompatible. - He is strongly opposed to multiculturalism, and attributes many evils to it. Though when put under pressure to justify some of the views he published in his book on the subject (such as that women reporting rape is an organized leftist conspiracy to undermine white men), he simply said he never thought them. Genius! - He promotes political figures on the…

On your first point, that doesn't seem like an idea unique to the Far Right at all. Plenty of Left Wing friends of mine don't think Capitalism works within a Democracy (though I'm sure for different reasons than Thiel).

On your second, I think the virtue of Multiculturalism is at least worth debating. If he calls it "evil" that's not something I'd agree with, but that would align with a lot of Far Right thought.

As for Coulter, she's just as much of a race baiter as any of the others on the Left that seem to attribute any problem they see to some race-based variable. I don't know of any instance where Theil has actively promoted her or her ideas but I'm ready to be proven wrong.

Not sure what to make of that last paragraph. My guess is you're taking issue with "Libertarian" and implying that Thiel is in fact not one, and is using it to appeal to nominal "actual" Libertarians by hyjacking the word. This is of course quite possible.

Re: Is Trump mulling Peter Thiel for a top intelligence advisory post?

#27

Post by pryce »

rrggrr wrote: post #7

Rumours of Theils maleavolence are greatly exaggerated. His bio better resembles a modern day Ross Perot, libertarian and all. Network analysis and data mining inteilligence toolsets were used in the intel comminity lkng before Palantir, same as mercenaries were vighting foreign wars ling before Blackwater. A real problem in government is lack of domain expetise in oversight. Heres a chance to have some of that if th…

How white supremacist do you have to be, to be acceptably labelled 'malevolent'?

* Enough to consistently regard ethnic minorities as threatening?

* Enough to consume white supremacist literature?

* Enough to endorse white supremacist literature to those around you?

* Enough to write white supremacist literature?

Your threat model is a caricature. When individuals with track-records like Thiel are selected for positions of power, it makes all of us less safe: No amount of domain expertise will protect us from Thiel himself.

Re: Is Trump mulling Peter Thiel for a top intelligence advisory post?

#28

Post by alphonsegaston »

SapphireSun wrote: post #25
confounded wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perot was in favor of direct democracy, Theil believes that democracy is making things too difficult for capitalism. Perot was in favor of increasing taxes on the rich, Theil is effectively a feudalist. Both men were billionaires who invested in computing and were involved in the 'military industrial complex'. But the word 'libertarian' has been dragged so far to the right in the US in recent years that it's not a me…

Would it be fair to say that US libertarians are anarcho-capitalists while the leftist libertarians are anarcho-syndicalists?

This is is irrelevant with regard to Thiel, because, as the parent points out, he’s a neo-feudalist working for the abolition of democracy. He funds several “Dark Enlightment” figures like Curtis Yarvin and even says as much himself:

https://www.theverge.com/2017/2/21/14671978/alt-right-menciu...

https://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/educatio...

Re: Is Trump mulling Peter Thiel for a top intelligence advisory post?

#30

Post by olalonde »

SapphireSun wrote: post #25
confounded wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perot was in favor of direct democracy, Theil believes that democracy is making things too difficult for capitalism. Perot was in favor of increasing taxes on the rich, Theil is effectively a feudalist. Both men were billionaires who invested in computing and were involved in the 'military industrial complex'. But the word 'libertarian' has been dragged so far to the right in the US in recent years that it's not a me…

Would it be fair to say that US libertarians are anarcho-capitalists while the leftist libertarians are anarcho-syndicalists?

Most US libertarians are just proponents of classical liberalism. "Left libertarianism" is very niche and sounds a bit like an oxymoron to me. I don't know much about Peter Thiel but it's hard for me to reconcile his outspoken support for Trump with the "libertarian" label.
Post reply on HN