Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

fivethirtyeight.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 302 posts

Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#91

Post by gozur88 »

tptacek wrote: post #86
gozur88 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crack vs powder sentencing isn't relevant. The violence was all on the crack side, which is what prompted the harsher sentences. And yes, Obama got a law passed based on a lie. That happens all the time. EDIT: Most people really don't care what you put into your body until you make them care, and that's what happened. You'd open up the paper and see another eight-year-old on the way to school got shot in the head bec…

No, the violence was not "all on the crack side": https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4533860/

Oh, yes, I see they've referenced a study that admits the violence was greater for crack but not if you "controlled" out the relevant variables.

Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#92

Post by tptacek »

gozur88 wrote: post #91
tptacek wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the violence was not "all on the crack side": https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4533860/

Oh, yes, I see they've referenced a study that admits the violence was greater for crack but not if you "controlled" out the relevant variables.

Stupid statisticians with their stupid "controls".

I'll take this opportunity to point out that, right or wrong (obviously: I think you're wrong), you've contradicted your comment rooting this subthread. You began by saying there was never strong feeling that black crack users should be imprisoned, and find yourself here arguing that imprisoned black crack users somehow deserved it.

Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#93

Post by buxtehude »

intopieces wrote: post #32

If there were one article this year I could force my family to process adequately, it's this one. Addiction is still seen in our group as a failure of character -- not raised right, not religious enough, not following the right path. This kind of advice is seen as 'soft', and that's a shame.

I would also recommend listening to an NPR podcast "The Fix" by RadioLab: http://www.radiolab.org/story/addiction/

While the description talks about taking a pill to solve your addiction problems (some very interesting insights into the latest research at that time 2015 and also many absurd regulatory hurdles), it's the interviews with researchers and addicts that are truly eye opening - and address many of the issues you mention. After listening to it I personally will never reduce someone who has an addiction to failure of character.

Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#94

Post by gozur88 »

tptacek wrote: post #92
gozur88 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, yes, I see they've referenced a study that admits the violence was greater for crack but not if you "controlled" out the relevant variables.

Stupid statisticians with their stupid "controls". I'll take this opportunity to point out that, right or wrong (obviously: I think you're wrong), you've contradicted your comment rooting this subthread. You began by saying there was never strong feeling that black crack users should be imprisoned, and find yourself here arguing that imprisoned black crack users somehow deserved it.

>Stupid statisticians with their stupid "controls".

I don't have access to the actual study, but the abstract very much reads like a study that came to the conclusion the authors wanted.

>You began by saying there was never strong feeling that black crack users should be imprisoned, and find yourself here arguing that imprisoned black crack users somehow deserved it.

Eh... no, I never said that second part. You might want to read through the thread again.

Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#95

Post by ubernostrum »

zaroth wrote: post #80
ubernostrum wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never mind people who get addicted after being prescribed medication for an injury, then? Never mind that the new generations of opioids were marketed as safer/less addicting when they probably were more addicting, and thus prescribed even more out of perception of their safety?

Althogh this has certainly become the narrative of late, TFA seems to discount this fairly strongly; "To that point, pain treatment is not the most significant risk factor for addiction. Far greater risk comes from simply being young and from using alcohol and other recreational drugs heavily. Ninety percent of all drug addictions start in the teens — and 75 percent of prescription opioid misuse begins when (mainly y…

There's a difference between "is not the most significant factor" and "is not a factor at all". The latter is what's being implied by the comment chain I responded in.

Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#96

Post by rdtsc »

kchoudhu wrote: post #2

Now that the opioid crisis is a problem for white people, science makes an appearance in the policy discussion. Contrast to the crack epidemic in the 80s: fuck'em, throw them all in prison. Edit to add: I wish the best of luck to those who have been caught up in this crisis: I'm rooting for you, and I hope every last one of you find the treatment you need. For those of us who aren't affected, it's time for some deep…

> fuck'em, throw them all in prison.

We've heard that before. There is a twist there though. A lot of that "tougher on drugs" legislation was pushed by the poor black community leaders because they saw what crack was doing to their children, young adults, whole families. Normally we'd all want to say it's the white man abusing their privilege in a sadistic manner but sometimes there are some subtleties involved.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/crime/2016/0...

Another interesting thing there is that CIA was probably involved:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_involvement_in_Contra_coca...

Now on paper they "weren't" but given the article from Gary Webb and reading between the lines about what their own Inspector General said "...agency officers were not required to report allegations of drug trafficking involving non-employees, defined as paid and non-paid "assets"—pilots who ferried supplies to the contras, as well as contra officials and others.[49][50]..."

Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#97

Post by icantdrive55 »

Justsignedup wrote: post #3

Interesting question: The replacing opioid addiction with maintenance drugs... I could understand that drug being an okay interim solution, but in the end the person still needs to go through withdrawal, the drug just replaces withdrawal with another drug. Withdrawal is hard. Yes. But at least the person is in the right mindset to go through it once they are off the compulsory addiction, even if it takes a year to ge…

1. I haven't read the article. Why--because for myself, all the talk makes the problem worse.

2. For myself, going on generic bupenorpine, and tapering off was not that bad. I took a year to taper off. I probally could have tapeed off the opioids if I was given a chance. The problem is most Doctors just cut you off. Completely ridiculous, especially if the patient is a serious individual. (I got lucky to find a doctor to prescribe bupenorpine without driving me crazy with endless office visits. I also just happened to be given the drug for another disorder.)

3. The generic bupenopine is still pricey. I don't quite get it, other than most Dr's don't trust their patients to not abuse opioids, so there isn't a huge demand for generic Subutex? There are still some sensible people who just want to stop the original addiction. On the other hand, I wouldn't be schocked if the price of generic Subutex is the result of some shenanigans.

4. Most people will be given Suboxone, that has Naloxone in it. It makes doctors feel safe, and that's what was taught in the course they had to take in order to prescribe/treat. Crazy again. (I felt Nalaxone just raised the price of the drug, but some of you will need an opoid antagonist in your treatment, especially if street drugs are easily available, or you don't have not much self control.)

4. My point is if you Taper off, all the drama is spared. My story will never be on Lifetime.

5. It's still a pain in the ass with the Dr. visits, and getting scripts though.

6. I can offer this, if you want to stop, Taper off. Yes--I know it's just not that easy. The system we currently have makes getting off difficult. Again crazy?

7. Stay away from all the support group sites. They just scared the hell out of me, especially the ones on the internet.

8. If you are addicted to anything, most of you can successfully taper off yourself. Very few of you need the drama, and expense of a rehab. Again--the system is so rediculious, we are forced into going to the rehabs, just to get the opportunity to taper off. Again crazy.

9. We have a crisis. It's not giving addicted people the easy/cheap way to Taper off the most controlled substances. It's no wonder people turn to the streets to feed their cravings.

Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#98

Post by refurb »

liveoneggs wrote: post #31
gozur88 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Contrast to the crack cocaine epidemic in the 80s: fuck'em, throw them all in prison. That's overly reductive to the point of being wrong. There was never a particularly strong feeling that crack addicts should be thrown in prison any more than other types of addicts. People were strongly in favor of throwing crack dealers in prison because they were turning neighborhoods into war zones as they fought for lucrative…

crack vs cocaine sentencing doesn't agree with you. It was clearly making the "black" crime of crack possession worse than the "white" crime of coke possession. Obama got a whole law passed in 2010 to address it!

If you were around back in the 1980's, you'd realize it was because crack was labelled an "epidemic" and ended up on the nightly news often. "Something had to be done"

That wasn't happening with powdered cocaine.

Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#99

Post by arprocter »

liveoneggs wrote: post #31
gozur88 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Contrast to the crack cocaine epidemic in the 80s: fuck'em, throw them all in prison. That's overly reductive to the point of being wrong. There was never a particularly strong feeling that crack addicts should be thrown in prison any more than other types of addicts. People were strongly in favor of throwing crack dealers in prison because they were turning neighborhoods into war zones as they fought for lucrative…

crack vs cocaine sentencing doesn't agree with you. It was clearly making the "black" crime of crack possession worse than the "white" crime of coke possession. Obama got a whole law passed in 2010 to address it!

Carl Hart has researched this[0]

I found his appearance on Joe Rogan's podcast (most recently #698) compelling

[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Hart#Research

Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#100

Post by refurb »

tptacek wrote: post #87
dogruck wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't a "markets thing". Crack hit black communities. Then, black leaders within those communities responded by passing tough laws.

No, that's not at all true. The Anti-Drug Abuse Act of 1986 was passed by an overwhelmingly white Congress and an overwhelmingly white Senate, and signed by overwhelmingly white Ronald Reagan.

This is the whole "dammed if you do, dammed if you don't".

Situation: Crack use climbs in black communities leading to major social problems.

Option A: Create tough laws to stop crack use. WRONG, YOU ARE RACIST (for singling out the black community).

Option B: Don't create tough laws. WRONG, YOU ARE RACIST (for not caring about the black community).

Post reply on HN