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Remove United from your flight results

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Re: Remove United from your flight results

#91

Post by wapz »

rm999 wrote: post #69

The comments in here are oddly fatalist about the whole thing. We put a lot of trust in airlines; and not just in safety or to get us somewhere, but we also give them an unusual number of legal protections once we're in their care. When the drama first started I kind of wrote it off: "this must have been a misunderstanding compounded by a single employee's stupidity". But when I found that it was not only condoned, b…

The one terrible experience I had with United is when I was flying from Japan to SFO connecting at LA. We arrived at LA and didn't see our connecting flight on the flight status screen and went to customer service. The lady said "well it was cancelled and they should have told you in Japan. We can't help you now." Both flights were WITH united and when I asked for another flight she said "I'll send you tomorrow. OK?!" Well it wasn't nearly as bad as some of the others' have experienced and didn't cause me to boycott them but these recent allegations that have surfaced seem pretty serious.

Re: Remove United from your flight results

#92

Post by ams6110 »

evilDagmar wrote: post #55
ams6110 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IANAL but pretty sure there are some specific exceptions for employees en route to another location to staff a flight (deadheading). If airlines could not do this they would have to possibly cancel flights that they could not otherwise staff, inconveniencing dozens or hundreds of passengers instead of just a few. That said, United utterly botched this in the way they handled it. And I don't let the PD off the hook ei…

You are simply mistaken. United should have handled this before boarding the passengers--when they would have had a legal right to arbitrarily deny boarding. United screwed up by failing to follow the correct procedures, and the compounded that failure by sending security personnel onto the plane to manhandle their customers.

Correct, I worded this poorly. Was not trying to defend the forcible removal, only that they can (and do) deny boarding to position crew.

Re: Remove United from your flight results

#93

Post by wapz »

wklauss wrote: post #70
donald123 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And also, those $800, $1000 are just United voucher. The worst is they only issue 16 or 20 $50 vouchers, you can only use one voucher each time, and can only book through phone (which some people say is usually more expensive than online), oh and expire after a year. When more people know that, they are not stupid, it's useless even if they give you $10k. Basically they caused this no volunteer situation themselves.

You can use United vouchers online. I have volunteered a couple of times in the past and used them without any problem on United's website. You can also use them for multiple trips if the amount on the voucher is not exhausted. They do expire after a year, though, that is correct.

Did they issue you multiple $50 vouchers like the other person said? I fly mostly from SFO to HND (Japan) and it would be worthless if I only got $50 off a flight.

Re: Remove United from your flight results

#94

Post by [deleted] »

ams6110 wrote: post #87
chrismcb wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is nothing in the contract of carriage that says it is ok to remove a passenger from the plane for dead heads. About the only reason they are allowed to remove a passenger from the plane is safety reasons. Three fact that united might have to cancel a flight and inconvenience other people is totally irrelevant.

You are correct and my post was not precisely worded. I was not trying to say it was OK to forcibly remove a boarded passenger for this reason. I was responding mostly to the claim that they can only denying boarding in the event of an oversale because they can deny boarding to accommodate positioning crew, it happens all the time. I agree that once the passenger was boarded, the situation was different. United screw…

[deleted]

Re: Remove United from your flight results

#95

Post by btgeekboy »

fixxer wrote: post #74

If I removed every airline that sucked from my flight results, I'd be driving to Paris. I hope this reaction keeps going because I'm gonna load up on United stock. In 6 months, all these noise makers will be gone and we'll all realize United is equivalent in shittiness to AA, Delta, etc etc.

It's already too late to buy the stock on sale. From 5 days ago, UAL is down only 0.19%. With DAL -.07%, LUV +4.04%, and ALK -1.54%, it's hard to argue that one-off situations like this event, or Delta's multiple days of cancellations, have much of an effect on investors.

https://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=1&...

Re: Remove United from your flight results

#96

Post by redler »

foxylad wrote: post #61
sitepodmatt wrote: post #10

United screwed up by not having a decent incentive system in place to avoid deplaning people. People have presented many options, including taking a ballpark figure on checkin, or whilst on the airplance a speaker announcement anyone to travel later for $800, wait a minute, $1000, $1200, okay great thanks folks.. That was extremely badly handled and shocking that no process was in place for this - as last minute crew…

Would renting a private jet have been a viable solution for United to get their four employees where they needed to go? I have no idea what it costs, but given they were in the hole for several thousand dollars in refunds, it might have saved them money as well as grief.

It would probably take a day to arrange, and then coat about $15,000 per flight hour. Not the quickest or most frugal option.

Re: Remove United from your flight results

#97

Post by axoltl »

diminoten wrote: post #76
chrismcb wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is nothing in the contract of carriage that says it is ok to remove a passenger from the plane for dead heads. About the only reason they are allowed to remove a passenger from the plane is safety reasons. Three fact that united might have to cancel a flight and inconvenience other people is totally irrelevant.

Read rule 25, and once you realize that employees are booked as passengers when moved like this, you realize there's a whole procedure in place for bumping people involuntarily from flights.

That's actually not true. From 14 CFR 250.1, definitions:

"Confirmed reserved space means space on a specific date and on a specific flight and class of service of a carrier which has been requested by a passenger, including a passenger with a “zero fare ticket,”"

"Zero fare ticket means a ticket acquired without a substantial monetary payment such as by using frequent flyer miles or vouchers" ... "A zero fare ticket does not include free or reduced rate air transportation provided to airline employees and guests".

Which means the employees cannot be counted as having confirmed reserved space. 14 CFR 250.2a says:

"In the event of an oversold flight, every carrier shall ensure that the smallest practicable number of persons holding confirmed reserved space on that flight are denied boarding involuntarily."

Which means denying the smallest practicable number of persons holding confirmed reserved space means denying 0 paying passengers. They cannot bump passengers for crew. Whether they do or not, they legally cannot.

Re: Remove United from your flight results

#98

Post by BostonEnginerd »

wapz wrote: post #93
wklauss wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can use United vouchers online. I have volunteered a couple of times in the past and used them without any problem on United's website. You can also use them for multiple trips if the amount on the voucher is not exhausted. They do expire after a year, though, that is correct.

Did they issue you multiple $50 vouchers like the other person said? I fly mostly from SFO to HND (Japan) and it would be worthless if I only got $50 off a flight.

I've gotten several thousand dollars in vouchers over the years. I've never ever had gotten one which couldn't be stacked with other vouchers to pay for a flight.

Re: Remove United from your flight results

#100

Post by unscaled »

diminoten wrote: post #78
terrestrial wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A law would not "fix" this. It's a workaround. Which law was this guy breaking to begin with? The problem is lack of scrutiny by the officers handling this. The process should have gone something like this: United: "Hey, we have this guy refusing the leave the airplane. Can you help us remove him?" Chicago PD: "Why won't he leave the airplane?" United: "He says he needs to catch this flight for something work-related…

What actually happened: United: "This man is trespassing on private property." Chicago PD: "We'll be right over." United breaking their agreement isn't illegal, but remaining on private property after you've been asked to leave by the people in charge is illegal.

Unless you paid to remain on said private property, and they are bound by contract to let you stay.
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