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Thousands of Low-Income Americans 'Donate' Blood Plasma to For-Profit Centers

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Re: Thousands of Low-Income Americans 'Donate' Blood Plasma to For-Profit Centers

#91

Post by ThrustVectoring »

mindslight wrote: post #60
ThrustVectoring wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Relevant Churchill quote: >Some years ago in London there was a toll bar on a bridge across the Thames, and all the working people who lived on the south side of the river had to pay a daily toll of one penny for going and returning from their work. The spectacle of these poor people thus mulcted of so large a proportion of their earnings offended the public con-science, and agitation was set on foot, municipal autho…

If your inner communist wants to see reforms, it should think economically. One can't ignore incentives. The core intuition is that rents will go up, but not by the full six pence - perhaps only five. The landlords will be unable to extract the entire surplus. The people will have slightly more money, which they can save to gain that negotiating power you're talking about. However, the monetary policy of USD directly…

My inner communist does not want to see reforms. It wants to convince me that going all smashy-smashy is better than the current state of affairs. It's not particularly successful, but it's fun to let it try.

Re: Thousands of Low-Income Americans 'Donate' Blood Plasma to For-Profit Centers

#92

Post by Retric »

gravypod wrote: post #90
Retric wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of the current tests are 100% accurate for known diseases. So, no it's really not safe today. Further as I said, the risk for the next outbreak is significant. PS: Risks of AIDS are conservatively estimated at 1:1.5 million per transfusion, but some people get a lot of transfusions. Here is one example from 2008: https://www.cdc.gov/Mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5941a3.htm AIDS is also rapidly becoming drug resistant…

This would very well still be a risk if they were all donations and not monetary transactions. The onus is on you to provide evidence to show a corelation between purchased blood and AIDS/HIV.

The CDC did that years ago which is why donations stopped being monetary transactions. The current risks are lower in large part due to testing, but screening questions are still a significant part of the blood safety net and history has shown people lie when money is involved.

They do have the if there is any reason you suspect their might be an issue bar code because people still lie even without money simply because of social pressure.

Re: Thousands of Low-Income Americans 'Donate' Blood Plasma to For-Profit Centers

#93

Post by darpa_escapee »

Houshalter wrote: post #68
woodruffw wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To paraphrase Kant: You shouldn't use the less fortunate (or anybody, really) as a mere mean to an end. Paying the homeless a pittance to behave as moving antennas is about as close as you can get to treating someone as a mere mean. The same goes for paying the disadvantaged $40 for their plasma - we can all intuitively recognize that a minimal "solution" that treats the individual as a mean and not an individual (au…

Who cares? The only relevant question is "Do their actions make the world a better place?" Or perhaps, "Are they improving these people's lives, or making them worse?" And yes, they are improving their lives, if only slightly. They are making the world a better place. The people who claim to care about these poor people, have done nothing to help them. Their revealed preferences show they don't actually care at all.…

> "Are they improving these people's lives, or making them worse?" And yes, they are improving their lives, if only slightly. They are making the world a better place.

And people that profit off of child labor are helping hungry kids eat.

This is an absurd metric.

Re: Thousands of Low-Income Americans 'Donate' Blood Plasma to For-Profit Centers

#94

Post by darpa_escapee »

jeffdavis wrote: post #57
0xfaded wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A donated dollar is one less taxable dollar, so in practice provides a means for individually diverting taxes to charities one finds agreeable. In the US I've even heard people using this rational to avoid fuelling the military industrial complex. However a well functioning government that best served society would not have this problem. In principle it's the government's job to take care of society's needs, not the…

"In principle it's the government's job to take care of society's needs, not the charities'." I disagree strongly. Concentrating responsibility concentrates power, which is dangerous. Governments should share power internally, share between levels (federal, state, local), and leave a lot of the power with the people (who may use it for private enterprises, NGOs, etc.).

Unfortunately, in the history of the world, charity hasn't even come close to helping as many of those in need as successful government programs. The incentives to provide enough support to different charities aren't there. Charity follows trends and whims, not needs. For example, the top cumulative donations went to charities that do not serve the needs of the poor, despite how many people are still in need of assistance despite government programs.

Re: Thousands of Low-Income Americans 'Donate' Blood Plasma to For-Profit Centers

#95

Post by Houshalter »

darpa_escapee wrote: post #93
Houshalter wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who cares? The only relevant question is "Do their actions make the world a better place?" Or perhaps, "Are they improving these people's lives, or making them worse?" And yes, they are improving their lives, if only slightly. They are making the world a better place. The people who claim to care about these poor people, have done nothing to help them. Their revealed preferences show they don't actually care at all.…

> "Are they improving these people's lives, or making them worse?" And yes, they are improving their lives, if only slightly. They are making the world a better place. And people that profit off of child labor are helping hungry kids eat. This is an absurd metric.

If what you say is true, and child labor is keeping children from starving to death, then how could you possibly oppose it?

The main objection against child labor is that it is extremely detrimental for the children. If you literally believe the children benefit from it, then I can not understand your objection.

Re: Thousands of Low-Income Americans 'Donate' Blood Plasma to For-Profit Centers

#96

Post by darpa_escapee »

Houshalter wrote: post #95
darpa_escapee wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Are they improving these people's lives, or making them worse?" And yes, they are improving their lives, if only slightly. They are making the world a better place. And people that profit off of child labor are helping hungry kids eat. This is an absurd metric.

If what you say is true, and child labor is keeping children from starving to death, then how could you possibly oppose it? The main objection against child labor is that it is extremely detrimental for the children. If you literally believe the children benefit from it, then I can not understand your objection.

Did you know some slave owners granted their slaves semi-autonomy as long as work got done?

Re: Thousands of Low-Income Americans 'Donate' Blood Plasma to For-Profit Centers

#97

Post by QuercusMax »

njharman wrote: post #17

Is this really news, not known? I did it and so did most people I knew back in college (the ones who didn't were too heavy drug users). It was one of many sources for "minor money". Which when you have NO money, is pretty great. It's one of a host of shitty things we force poor people to do cause as a society we have this stupid fucking idea that you have to work for everything, that you don't deserve the necessities…

I sold my plasma for a semester or so in college for gas money, before I got a "real job" on campus. I was making around $60-75/wk, which wasn't bad at all. The people there were all either college students or super sketchy people; it was right next to university campus.

I didn't (and still don't) feel like I was taken advantage of at all; it was better than flipping burgers.

Re: Thousands of Low-Income Americans 'Donate' Blood Plasma to For-Profit Centers

#98

Post by timv »

amorphid wrote: post #87
darawk wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with selling your blood? To me it seems like selling your time is a far more personal, unrecoverable injustice. And most people just call that 'work'. If you want to make it out like these people are being 'exploited', then you can make the case just the same that all property is exploitation. Railing against poor people donating blood plasma, or organs for that matter, is profoundly misguided.

Not an expert on the subject, but I recall hearing somewhere that selling blood gives people an incentive to lie about their health history. "Do you shoot up illicit drugs with shared needles?" "Um... No. No I do not."

Yes, but don't many job applications have equivalent incentives for lying?

- Have you ever been charged with a criminal offence? - Do you use recreational drugs?

Etc. I don't think that the blood donation questionare is especially problematic on that regards.

Re: Thousands of Low-Income Americans 'Donate' Blood Plasma to For-Profit Centers

#99

Post by CamelCaseName »

timv wrote: post #98
amorphid wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not an expert on the subject, but I recall hearing somewhere that selling blood gives people an incentive to lie about their health history. "Do you shoot up illicit drugs with shared needles?" "Um... No. No I do not."

Yes, but don't many job applications have equivalent incentives for lying? - Have you ever been charged with a criminal offence? - Do you use recreational drugs? Etc. I don't think that the blood donation questionare is especially problematic on that regards.

The difference is who is harmed. A company may have to fire and replace a lying employee, so the shareholders lose some money, but a person contracting HIV from a bad blood transfusion is substantially more devastating.

Re: Thousands of Low-Income Americans 'Donate' Blood Plasma to For-Profit Centers

#100

Post by darawk »

amorphid wrote: post #87
darawk wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with selling your blood? To me it seems like selling your time is a far more personal, unrecoverable injustice. And most people just call that 'work'. If you want to make it out like these people are being 'exploited', then you can make the case just the same that all property is exploitation. Railing against poor people donating blood plasma, or organs for that matter, is profoundly misguided.

Not an expert on the subject, but I recall hearing somewhere that selling blood gives people an incentive to lie about their health history. "Do you shoot up illicit drugs with shared needles?" "Um... No. No I do not."

True, but that is the system being exploited by those individuals, not the other way around.
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