A Programmer Evaluates the MacBook Pro (Touch Bar) • Hacker News Board

Re: A Programmer Evaluates the MacBook Pro (Touch Bar)

#91

Post by notadoc » Sun, Dec 04, 2016, 6:12 AM UTC

lobster_johnson wrote: post #76

I have been using the 2016 MacBook Pro 15'' for more than a week. Overall, I like most things about it. It's nice and thin, the fingerprint reader is a time-saver. I'm also fine with USB-C and the new dongle normal. I'm disappointed about the lack of bump in performance or RAM, but those things are not dealbreakers. The new touch bar/keyboard combo, however, is. Here are the issues I'm having. * No tactile feedback .…

Great review, this is more insightful and relevant than the linked piece.

I ended up up buying a 2015 MBP model and know several others who have done the same after avoiding or returning the 2016 MBP. I personally could have probably stomached the various 2016 compromises and nuisances for much improved performance and 32GB/64GB RAM, but as is, just can't do it. Maybe next year.

Re: A Programmer Evaluates the MacBook Pro (Touch Bar)

#92

Post by BuckRogers » Sun, Dec 04, 2016, 6:41 AM UTC

toyg wrote: post #74

BuckRogers wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That seems to sum up this review. The macbook pro is a successor to the air, not the old macbook pro. I could see that argument for the MBP13 but not 15. You should clarify your remarks if that's what you meant because it looks like you're trolling otherwise.

The problem is that the 15'' pays for the sins of the 13''. It has to be the same thinness and share most of the same components, because of economies of scale (which are basically Cook's religion). But the priority for the 13'' is to be "a better Air, at Pro prices", so most trade-offs made there (33% smaller batteries, no high-power Ram etc) end up crippling the 15''. The artificial push to merge Air and Pro lines…

Yeah, I see what you're saying. It makes some sense on product line delineation. Not sure MBP15 owners got screwed or are crippled though. All the criticism of the new MBP shows how awfully spoiled people have become. There's really not much more you could do there to improve on the best constructed laptop anyone has ever created.

Re: A Programmer Evaluates the MacBook Pro (Touch Bar)

#93

Post by hellofunk » Sun, Dec 04, 2016, 9:52 AM UTC

sanbor wrote: post #45

hellofunk wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vi is not just the past. It remains one of the best ways to edit text, period. And it will probably continue this way long into the future. Why do you think so many IDEs come with vim emulation?

Ctrl-C is equivalent to pressing Esc in Vim and you don't have to move your hand so much.

Ctrl is one of the keys that vim specifically tries to avoid.

Re: A Programmer Evaluates the MacBook Pro (Touch Bar)

#94

Post by rleigh » Sun, Dec 04, 2016, 11:03 AM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #73

JustSomeNobody wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The world is not full of UNIX era programmers. It is actually still full of *NIX programmers. What's your real point?

I guess buying a 3000€ device to use it as expensive xterm manager.

I work in a group in which nearly every developer has a MacBook Pro, and they are all used pretty much just for this. It's quite common. It's a cheap way of getting a relatively decent Unix workstation. We all use the terminal or iTerm2 for local development and work on remote Linux systems, and around half are vi or emacs users. The rest use a bit of Sublime Text or Eclipse depending upon what they are doing. The mac is useful for maybe 5% of each developer's work, otherwise a Linux box would be just as useful (I'm one of the outliers who uses Linux and BSD nearly exclusively.)

Certainly for our purposes, the new MacBook is pretty sub-par. All the lost connectivity options were used heavily. I doubt when the time comes around to refresh them they will be as compelling as they were in 2011-2012. I'll probably just get a stock Dell or HP and find it massively less frustrating. It's not like the old MacBook Pros didn't make compromises either, but now it's making so many its use is difficult to justify.

Re: A Programmer Evaluates the MacBook Pro (Touch Bar)

#95

Post by mvdwoord » Sun, Dec 04, 2016, 11:04 AM UTC

Not being able to find volume controls by touch will be infuriating me forever I guess. Although I doubt personally It would much value for me I can see how TouchBar could be a nice addition to a laptop for many people. If they would have just placed it above the current row of function keys... I also read about some issues with the power button, sometimes requiring you to close/open the lid. Can;t find it now, does anybody know more about that?

Re: A Programmer Evaluates the MacBook Pro (Touch Bar)

#96

Post by addicted » Sun, Dec 04, 2016, 11:57 AM UTC

lsadam0 wrote: post #40

buckhx wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1% is WWWAAAYYY too low. The stack overflow survey in a sibling comment had 30%. Some of us don't love all the baggage that comes with a full IDE.

I would bet that it's really in the single digit range. I think lots of programmers dishonestly claim to use it because its some sort of badge of honor to say you do.

A lot of developers who use IDEs Ike Visual Studio also use VI style bindings with modal development styles within those IDEs.

When Visual Studio Code came out, the VIM extension was one of the most sought after.

Re: A Programmer Evaluates the MacBook Pro (Touch Bar)

#97

Post by geophile » Sun, Dec 04, 2016, 3:58 PM UTC

whorleater wrote: post #86

Obi_Juan_Kenobi wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you not do that with the new macbook? I figured you'd be able to do this context-dependent, so that they'd be function keys for relevant programs.

You definitely can, geophile is just being obtuse. >For some apps, you can make the function keys display permanently in Touch Bar: In System Preferences, choose Keyboard. Click Shortcuts. From the left sidebar, select Function Keys. Click the “+” symbol, then navigate to the app and select it. From: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207240 If you want always function keys, you can do that too: >If you prefer the top…

I actually looked through System Preferences. I did not see a new Touch Bar option, and it didn't occur to me that a non-keyboard device would be configured under Keyboard. My bad. While this does improve things, I would still rather have real keys. Tactile feedback is a thing.

Re: A Programmer Evaluates the MacBook Pro (Touch Bar)

#98

Post by nodamage » Sun, Dec 04, 2016, 9:11 PM UTC

whorleater wrote: post #86

Obi_Juan_Kenobi wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you not do that with the new macbook? I figured you'd be able to do this context-dependent, so that they'd be function keys for relevant programs.

You definitely can, geophile is just being obtuse. >For some apps, you can make the function keys display permanently in Touch Bar: In System Preferences, choose Keyboard. Click Shortcuts. From the left sidebar, select Function Keys. Click the “+” symbol, then navigate to the app and select it. From: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207240 If you want always function keys, you can do that too: >If you prefer the top…

Note: the second link only applies to non-Touch Bar devices.

Re: A Programmer Evaluates the MacBook Pro (Touch Bar)

#99

Post by anonbanker » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 2:43 AM UTC

drawkbox wrote: post #9

enraged_camel wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>How does a programmer evaluate this machine without discussing at least one of vi and emacs, and the absence of real Esc and Fn keys? What percentage of programmers use vi or emacs?

Use or say they use? vi and emacs are alot like some programming books people say they have read to show they are a programmer because they think that it what it means. My guess, < 10% with all the IDEs and text editors out there today. On servers or VMs they are common, in actually coding, probably overstated.

Mac users are poseurs, got it.

Re: A Programmer Evaluates the MacBook Pro (Touch Bar)

#100

Post by anonbanker » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 2:48 AM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #73

JustSomeNobody wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The world is not full of UNIX era programmers. It is actually still full of *NIX programmers. What's your real point?

I guess buying a 3000€ device to use it as expensive xterm manager.

Don't forget that Finder can connect to sftp fileshares.

Would they be better off using KDE 5 to develop? Probably, but good luck getting your manager to sign-off on a linux laptop, especially when all the other devs use 3000€ devices to manage their xterm sessions.