Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think this is a weird American political myth, like evolution not being real, or global warming being a Chinese conspiracy, or electric cars being worse than gas due to coal. You go online and you find the same talking point, the same urban myths (they just dump it in a landfill!), the same links to professional political pundit's think pieces rather than to actual expert opinion.
Recycling here is actually on the chopping block because they can't sell the materials at a price that covers the costs. They've never taken glass for that reason. The economics are better for bigger population centers, but here the modest amount of material and trucking really put pressure on it. Of course there are several businesses paying for metal in the area.
Recycling Eyeglasses Is a Waste of Money
91–100 of 111 posts
Re: Recycling Eyeglasses Is a Waste of Money
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
Recycling here is actually on the chopping block because they can't sell the materials at a price that covers the costs. They've never taken glass for that reason. The economics are better for bigger population centers, but here the modest amount of material and trucking really put pressure on it. Of course there are several businesses paying for metal in the area.
So is recycling in your area expensive enough that recovering some of the recycling costs results in a larger loss than losing 100% of the costs of landfill operations? BTW, what area is this?
Let's go with "small town Midwest".
Re: Recycling Eyeglasses Is a Waste of Money
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
Think Globally, Act Irrationally: Recycling http://econlib.org/library/Columns/y2007/Mungerrecycling.htm... http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2007/07/munger_on_recyc.htm...
Munger makes the same mistake that Tierney does by focusing on something that's easy to attack, and sounds good on the face, but is in fact nearly irrelevant to the discussion. Tierney's argument that it takes energy to recycle is completely moot; the point isn't energy at all, the point is to recover materials & to slow production and consumption of wasteful single use containers. Combine that with our ability to us…
You are simply assuming throwing single use containers in landfill is more wasteful than recycling.
> our ability to use abundant and unending solar power
Yeah, that's why electricity is free, right? Also by this logic you can equally argue that recycling is pointless because in the future we can use robots (which run on free energy 24/7) to go through landfills to recover useful resources.
> Munger's entire argument is that recycling is expensive, there's a cost to recycling
Way to simplify the opponent's position. Munger says recycling things like aluminium would probably make sense.
He's accusing recycling proponents of not calculating the long term cost of recycling (which you demonstrated), which in many cases would be higher than simply throwing garbage away in landfill.
Munger argues that recycling can save resources, of course, but it can also require more resources than production from scratch. Some curbside recycling, for example, makes sense, while other forms (such as green glass) may be akin to a form of religious expression rather than a wise policy that is environmentally productive.
Why I'm Not an Environmentalist
http://ruby.fgcu.edu/courses/twimberley/EnviroPol/EnviroPhil...
Re: Recycling Eyeglasses Is a Waste of Money
#94This argument seems really weird to me. It's a "waste" compared to what? If the alternative is glasses going in the garbage or plastic recycling to recover nothing more than raw materials, then 7% of donations surviving the donation process seems like a massive win.
Throwing stuff away isn't a problem (the world's huge; besides, today's landfills will be a future generation's mines); throwing recyclable stuff away isn't a problem (why, every day you excrete water which you could distil & drink — at a ridiculous cost); throwing away stuff which could be recycled or reused profitably is a problem.
Re: Recycling Eyeglasses Is a Waste of Money
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
for motorbike, it's okay because the distance to front wheel is short and my vision is sharp up to the distance. i can't read number plates and stuffs clearly; however, i don't drive to see those things clearly. my mission is move from a to b without collisions.
Motorbike without vision is so much safer than car without vision. I'm relieved to hear.
Re: Recycling Eyeglasses Is a Waste of Money
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
>The insane price of frames comes from a monopoly by Luxottica, which owns most of the retail outlets in malls in the US. How is owning most of the retail outlets in malls a monopoly?
Luxottica owns many things, but the most important thing any company can own are distribution channels. Then you can just refuse to sell your competitor's goods.
Luxottica did something similar with Ray-Ban. Their products used to sell for around $19 in gas stations. After the Luxottica takeover, they became a "luxury" brand, with prices from $129 to $300.
Re: Recycling Eyeglasses Is a Waste of Money
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's energy efficient, but it lessens the demand for tree farms, which themselves are good for the environment.
I haven't seen that before. How are tree farms good for the environment?
Of course, most of the studies on this are sponsored by the paper industry, and it's really difficult to get unbiased information on the subject.
Re: Recycling Eyeglasses Is a Waste of Money
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, there's one hiccup. You can't privately dump. Well, you can try. Since you're selling at a loss on the open market, others with capital will see an unexpected price and wonder if you have developed a unique efficiency. After some basic research, some will guess at what you're trying to do. They then have some great options. Invest in competitors or substitutes for the coming reduced supply. Or, stockpile the go…
Right, the Free Market Fairy that always produces results consistent with rules that can be written on one A4 page /s
That's a straw man. Markets have lots of failure modes, this just isn't one of them.
It's like an underpants gnome plan. Maybe it looks OK on paper, but it falls apart under any outside strategic pressure.
Re: Recycling Eyeglasses Is a Waste of Money
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, there's one hiccup. You can't privately dump. Well, you can try. Since you're selling at a loss on the open market, others with capital will see an unexpected price and wonder if you have developed a unique efficiency. After some basic research, some will guess at what you're trying to do. They then have some great options. Invest in competitors or substitutes for the coming reduced supply. Or, stockpile the go…
> Invest in competitors or substitutes for the coming reduced supply Which will be at a loss, so you need just as much money. This is especially hard in developing countries. The market will still be destroyed, and you'll end up with a oligopoly. > Or, stockpile the goods you sell, Many things can't be stockpiled, and stockpiling also costs money (see the above) One example where private dumping is tried, is uber wit…
Right, and there are other responses in those situations, as described above.
But even if you retreat to the position that dumping is really only feasible for goods that can't be stockpiled, then you already agree with me in enough cases for this to be moot.
Almost all public concern about dumping is directed at things like tires or concrete or steel that could be easily stockpiled if it were really a dumping strategy, if prices were returning to monopolistic high levels after reduced competition.
What's usually happening is that the other region simply has lower costs of production or is selling off overproduction at their own loss.
Re: Recycling Eyeglasses Is a Waste of Money
#100There are several competing efforts to produce low-cost eyeglasses. Focus On Vision has adjustable eyeglasses.[1] Project Congo has some kind of eyeglass-making kit.[2] Briefcase-sized eyeglass kits used to be popular in India. They contained round frames and several hundred round lenses. The idea is that glasses have three parameters - spherical curvature, elliptical curvature, and axis of the ellipse. The usual opt…