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Recycling Eyeglasses Is a Waste of Money

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Re: Recycling Eyeglasses Is a Waste of Money

#61
post #10

Questions unfortunately not answered by the article: a) Who profits from this recycling program? How many people get a western salary to coordinate all this? b) Following from (a), how many optometrists and lens makers could make a living in Cambodia if people just put $1 in a collection box each time they'd dump their used glasses in a box? This suspiciously sounds like the "2nd hand clothes for Africa" scam that on…

> scam I'm glad someone makes money off of my old clothes rather than they go in the trash. > destroys local tailors' businesses That's a variation on the broken window fallacy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window

> I'm glad someone makes money off of my old clothes rather than they go in the trash.

Nobody makes money off your old clothes. People make money off of the money donated to keep the charity running. That is okay if the charity is actually helping people; but if it isn't that money isn't being used right.

Re: Recycling Eyeglasses Is a Waste of Money

#62

Recycling is Garbage (1996) http://www.nytimes.com/1996/06/30/magazine/recycling-is-garb...

Wow, hard to believe this was actually linked to. That opinion article article was thoroughly debunked two decades ago, yet somehow it's still doing damage.

Debunking the Myths of the “Anti-Recyclers” http://www.edf.org/sites/default/files/174_Sep96.pdf

Recycling is not garbage - MIT technology review 1997 https://www.technologyreview.com/s/400100/recycling-is-not-g...

Re: Recycling Eyeglasses Is a Waste of Money

#63
post #22

There are several competing efforts to produce low-cost eyeglasses. Focus On Vision has adjustable eyeglasses.[1] Project Congo has some kind of eyeglass-making kit.[2] Briefcase-sized eyeglass kits used to be popular in India. They contained round frames and several hundred round lenses. The idea is that glasses have three parameters - spherical curvature, elliptical curvature, and axis of the ellipse. The usual opt…

>The insane price of frames comes from a monopoly by Luxottica, which owns most of the retail outlets in malls in the US.

How is owning most of the retail outlets in malls a monopoly?

Re: Recycling Eyeglasses Is a Waste of Money

#64
This study is old, but glad it's getting published on major media sources.

The cost of distributing the glasses and reaching rural locations is often more challenging than the cost of the glasses itself. One of the leading companies distributing low-cost eye glasses is VisionSpring (www.visionspring.org), and they are also main partner for Warby Parker (https://www.warbyparker.com/buy-a-pair-give-a-pair).

VS is making radically affordable quality glasses ubiquitous in frontier and emerging markets. Their customers earn less than $4 per day and are highly price sensitive. They sell to seed markets, are accountable for delivering on a value proposition, and gain consumer commitment for a product customers will need for the rest of their lifetime.

Re: Recycling Eyeglasses Is a Waste of Money

#65
post #63
post #22

There are several competing efforts to produce low-cost eyeglasses. Focus On Vision has adjustable eyeglasses.[1] Project Congo has some kind of eyeglass-making kit.[2] Briefcase-sized eyeglass kits used to be popular in India. They contained round frames and several hundred round lenses. The idea is that glasses have three parameters - spherical curvature, elliptical curvature, and axis of the ellipse. The usual opt…

>The insane price of frames comes from a monopoly by Luxottica, which owns most of the retail outlets in malls in the US. How is owning most of the retail outlets in malls a monopoly?

They also manufacture almost all of the major glasses frame brands. They don't have a complete monopoly, but they do control a vast majority of the market.

Re: Recycling Eyeglasses Is a Waste of Money

#66
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you provide a case history of an industry destroyed in this manner (selling below cost), where the dumper goes on to enjoy monopoly profits?

Steel industry in UK has been destroyed, and part of that is the complex pricing of Chinese steel.

Did Chinese steel sell in the UK below cost? After it was destroyed, did the cost rise to monopoly levels?

Re: Recycling Eyeglasses Is a Waste of Money

#67
post #31
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aluminum (and steel) is one of the very few things that is in any way worthwhile to recycle. Most of the things that we are urged to recycle (glass, plastics, paper, cardboard, etc) are cheaper and easier to make new from the abundant raw materials.

Quality Paper (not 5th generation cardboard) is energy-efficient to recycle

It's energy efficient, but it lessens the demand for tree farms, which themselves are good for the environment.

Re: Recycling Eyeglasses Is a Waste of Money

#68
post #63
post #22

There are several competing efforts to produce low-cost eyeglasses. Focus On Vision has adjustable eyeglasses.[1] Project Congo has some kind of eyeglass-making kit.[2] Briefcase-sized eyeglass kits used to be popular in India. They contained round frames and several hundred round lenses. The idea is that glasses have three parameters - spherical curvature, elliptical curvature, and axis of the ellipse. The usual opt…

>The insane price of frames comes from a monopoly by Luxottica, which owns most of the retail outlets in malls in the US. How is owning most of the retail outlets in malls a monopoly?

I'm not sure about the monopoly accusation, but Luxottica's influence extends far beyond the US, and is not just retail. The company owns over 7000 retail outlets across North and South America, Asia-Pacific, China, South Africa and the Middle East, under well-known retail brands such as Sunglass Hut, LensCrafters, OPSM and others.

Moreover, Luxottica are vertically-integrated, controlling design, manufacture and distribution of many major brands in both prescription and fashion eyewear. Their in-house brands include Arnette, Oakley, Oliver Peoples, Persol, Ray-Ban, Vogue and others. Additionally they manufacture product under license for many more, like Brooks Brothers, Chanel, D&G, DKNY, Ralph Lauren, Prada, Tiffany and Versace.

So, monopoly or not, it's fair to say that Luxottica exerts considerable control over the worldwide eyewear market!

Re: Recycling Eyeglasses Is a Waste of Money

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> things revert to normal when you stop paying Not if you do it right. If your goal is to destroy an industry in another country, you can stop dumping after that industry has been destroyed. Then, the people of that country will have no choice but to buy from you, because there is nobody left in that country that produces the goods you produce.

Can you provide a case history of an industry destroyed in this manner (selling below cost), where the dumper goes on to enjoy monopoly profits?

None of the cases I could read about discussed monopoly profits (so I guess, no - although it was not my argument). Rather they focused on the destruction of what were otherwise perfectly good industrial bases.

So I suppose the point I'd like to refute is that "dumping is always a losing game for the dumper".

The following article: http://www.nap.edu/read/5902/chapter/28

Discusses the case of the British steel industry between about 1880 to 1914. It's not 100% clear that dumping was the proximate cause of their industrial decline (these things are very hard to be sure about!), but a strong case is made that it was a major factor. It's actually a pretty interesting read.

Britain had a free market for steel, while the U.S. and German industries enjoyed substantial protection in their home markets. It's better to run a steel plant at 100% capacity, so it actually makes sense to sell extra production overseas even at a loss. Quote:

"The U.S. Consul General in Berlin reported in 1916 that "the Steel Verband believes in dumping. They justify their position as follows: Large steel plants must work at a certain maximum capacity without interruption if they are to remain efficient and produce at a minimum cost. It is impossible for the home market of any plant in any country to absorb a large output without interruption in the flow of orders due to periods of depression, from economic causes outside the influence of the steel industry. Also, the increased complication of the coal, iron, and steel industries, the increased use of furnace gases for industrial purposes (gas engines), for running lighting plants for neighboring towns, also the concentration of all stages of production in a few large mills, have made it increasingly difficult to reduce production in any one line of all the allied processes, without causing grave losses and disorganization in other lines. The Steel Verband therefore maintains that it is better for the entire economic life of the country in slack years at home to dispose of surplus products abroad at prices which may even cause a loss, inasmuch as the loss incurred by dumping abroad is in no comparison to the losses which would be incurred if production were reduced at home. "

Of course in an ideal world everyone in Britain was now "free to do other things than make steel" but of course that ignores the fact that when the steel industry goes, so does a lot of related industry, manufacturing investment, industrial expertise and research and development. This means that a country which falls behind due to dumping will tend to fall further behind.

Interestingly enough if you look through US anti-dumping / countervailing duties messages here: http://adcvd.cbp.dhs.gov/adcvdweb/ it seems like steel is still pretty relevant today.

Re: Recycling Eyeglasses Is a Waste of Money

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> things revert to normal when you stop paying Not if you do it right. If your goal is to destroy an industry in another country, you can stop dumping after that industry has been destroyed. Then, the people of that country will have no choice but to buy from you, because there is nobody left in that country that produces the goods you produce.

Well, there's one hiccup. You can't privately dump. Well, you can try. Since you're selling at a loss on the open market, others with capital will see an unexpected price and wonder if you have developed a unique efficiency. After some basic research, some will guess at what you're trying to do. They then have some great options. Invest in competitors or substitutes for the coming reduced supply. Or, stockpile the go…

Right, the Free Market Fairy that always produces results consistent with rules that can be written on one A4 page /s
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