China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet • Hacker News Board

Re: China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

#91

Post by toyg » Sat, Jun 18, 2016, 1:30 PM UTC

Eerie wrote: post #78

toyg wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If it's a choice between your human rights and someone else's life — obviously. So if I unjustly imprison you, and the only way for you to escape is by killing me, will you willingly stay imprisoned forever? It's an... admirable stance, although so unpopular that you'll likely find not even Gandhi on your side. (honestly, historical trivia is relatively irrelevant to the whole Israel/Palestine debate, which has gre…

>So if I unjustly imprison you, and the only way for you to escape is by killing me Completely wrong analogy. The killing doesn't help you escape at all, it just angers the jailer (who you can't touch anyway).

It was not an analogy, it was an hypothetical situation. If my human rights end where loss of life on your side begins, then according to that stated belief, the situation I mentioned is morally acceptable, is it not?

Re: China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

#92

Post by giardini » Sat, Jun 18, 2016, 1:33 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #51

xiaoma wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I follow your reasoning... are you implying that trade with China is more important for the entire western world than international trade with the all the west is to China? I could certainly see leaders in certain countries such as France who have been actively selling weaponry to China going "to help cart the rubble personally" but there's no way Obama or his next successor would do that.

> are you implying that trade with China is more important for the entire western world than international trade with the all the west is to China? Yes, we are utterly co-dependent at this point in time. Cutting trade with China would take a decade or more if it can be done at all at this stage.

"Cutting trade with China would take a decade or more if it can be done at all at this stage."

But I could finally buy decent pliers made in the USA, like I once could 25 years ago.

Re: China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

#93

Post by toyg » Sat, Jun 18, 2016, 1:36 PM UTC

golergka wrote: post #52

gakada wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The standard you are applying is pacifism: do not use violence even if violence is being used on you.

No. Use violence if it can lead to less net violence — this is my standard. Terror acts are a direct opposite of this.

Except you don't know what will ever lead to "less net violence", nor do you have a way to quantify net violence beyond bodycount -- and I don't think you want that.

Re: China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

#94

Post by whistlerbrk » Sat, Jun 18, 2016, 1:54 PM UTC

Remember when free trade was going to democratize and open China? What happened? This is terrible

Re: China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

#95

Post by coldtea » Sat, Jun 18, 2016, 1:55 PM UTC

nsomaru wrote: post #87

coldtea wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's a funny thing with monks. Quite a few are former businessman who want to try something more spiritual for a change but still are wealthy. So mostly phonies being tourists in spiritual-land?

Renunciation is defined with reference to your mental attitude towards possessions, not the presence or absence thereof. See, for example the 'Royal Sage' (Raja Rshi).

Hypocrisy though is defined by "the presence or absence thereof".

Re: China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

#96

Post by Udik » Sat, Jun 18, 2016, 1:58 PM UTC

yompers888 wrote: post #45

bhouston wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China : Tibet :: Israel : Palestine, they are analogous in many ways. The human rights groups talk about the problems, we recognize it is bad, the weaker ethnic community suffers and is oppressed, the more powerful ethnic group makes slow but steady progress in exerting its wishes, and no real changes are effected by the international community.

Doesn't Tibet lack a certain penchant for poorly aimed rockets and human shields in a way that detracts from this analogy?

> a certain penchant for poorly aimed rockets and human shields

As for that, I'm all in favour of giving Palestine high precision missiles and an Iron Dome system.

Re: China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

#97

Post by Udik » Sat, Jun 18, 2016, 1:59 PM UTC

golergka wrote: post #52

gakada wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The standard you are applying is pacifism: do not use violence even if violence is being used on you.

No. Use violence if it can lead to less net violence — this is my standard. Terror acts are a direct opposite of this.

And in the meantime keep grabbing somebody else's land. You're a man of high principles, indeed.

Re: China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

#98

Post by tim333 » Sat, Jun 18, 2016, 2:02 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #77

tim333 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>iPhone 6s It's a funny thing with monks. Quite a few are former businessman who want to try something more spiritual for a change but still are wealthy. I walked a bit with a young monk on the way to Tengboche Monastery and his main interest as we talked seemed to be designer sunglasses and which brand would be good to get.

> It's a funny thing with monks. Quite a few are former businessman who want to try something more spiritual for a change but still are wealthy. So mostly phonies being tourists in spiritual-land?

I'm not sure a former businessman being spiritual is particularly more phony than anyone else doing it.

Re: China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

#99

Post by wallace_f » Sat, Jun 18, 2016, 2:04 PM UTC

lotu wrote: post #6

mhuffman wrote: post #4

Wow! It is amazing that we do not consider this a human rights violation. Oh well, gotta keep them prices low at Walmart!

What are you proposing we do? Cut off trade with China? Intervene militarily? Write a strongly worded letter?

By we are you referring to the US? The US has a lot of capability here. I'm not going to go into a long winded post going into this. I just wanted to point out that unfortunately this kind of hand washing taking place in your comment is very effective.

Re: China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

#100

Post by jacquesm » Sat, Jun 18, 2016, 2:07 PM UTC

giardini wrote: post #92

jacquesm wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> are you implying that trade with China is more important for the entire western world than international trade with the all the west is to China? Yes, we are utterly co-dependent at this point in time. Cutting trade with China would take a decade or more if it can be done at all at this stage.

"Cutting trade with China would take a decade or more if it can be done at all at this stage." But I could finally buy decent pliers made in the USA, like I once could 25 years ago.

You can still buy those. But probably not at a price that you are prepared to pay.