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The New Mind Control – The internet has spawned subtle forms of influence

aeon.co

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Re: The New Mind Control – The internet has spawned subtle forms of influence

#91
post #18

This is a really interesting study but it's hard for me to believe in the conspiracy theory that the hundreds of engineers that work on Google Search would be OK implementing a complicated vote manipulation algorithm and keeping it secret. But it's possible, criminal conspiracies involving many people seem to happen regularly in the financial industry.

I was actually surprised the article didn't mention the Ghost in the Shell series. A big part of that universe was the idea that even without concerted manipulation, the simple fact that the information consumed by the public is too homogeneous could cause problems.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_Ghost_in_the_She...

Re: The New Mind Control – The internet has spawned subtle forms of influence

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because the library is funded by taxpayers – it doesn't need the money. How would you feel about a government-sponsored search engine? I think China has one of those.

Quite frankly, it might not be the worst solution. Britain has a government-sponsored TV station which is generally pretty well-regarded, for example...

So we'll all be happy to do our searches through NSA.gov? Or would you prefer the alternative, google.nsa.gov?

We can even make searches like FOIA requests, where if you search something they don't like, they redact the results you wanted, and if you don't phrase the search correctly, they just give you nothing.

Re: The New Mind Control – The internet has spawned subtle forms of influence

#93
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's so bad, and more importantly I don't see the solution. Google does what it does to make money, and ads are how it does that. If there's a more ethical solution it'll only be implemented if it's also more profitable. All that is fine with me; Google doesn't have any obligations to me or you or anyone besides their shareholders.

"I don't see any problem with the way the world's most powerful system for freeing the mind has been co-opted by for-profit enterprise. I am ignorant of any possible alternatives. Capitalist businesses sell goods and services in exchange for money. I accept that no effort will be made to find more ethical alternatives unless it can produce even more money. We as a society have no control or influence over what indivi…

It has been co-opted from its original purpose to allow the more efficient organization and deployment of violent force. Discussion of possible alternatives is fine, but that discussion should be aware of the internet's history as an ARPA project.

Re: The New Mind Control – The internet has spawned subtle forms of influence

#94
Megacorporations are bad for the internet for certain, but I don't feel very mind controlled by Google, as I almost always use Duckduckgo or Yandex. They produce fairly similar results, and I have the satisfaction of not shoveling the tiniest bit of money at a company I have likened to fat Vegas era Elvis.

I also doubt the results of their research. Nobody is going to vote for Donald Trump because he happens to appear first in a google search; that's just retarded. I think the fact that outsider candidates are locked out of legacy media megaphones and party power structures seems more harmful to democracy, and this has been accepted as "just how it is" for decades.

Re: The New Mind Control – The internet has spawned subtle forms of influence

#95
Here is the actual study: http://www.pnas.org/content/112/33/E4512.full.pdf

I can't see how this is valid at all. We know that polls give biased results unless you are very careful with the sampling. Here people are self-selecting for a poll (eg via mechanical turk). Then you apply a highly contrived scenario that they are googling about a candidate. Then you ask them a bunch of questions, immediately, and proceed to draw wide ranging conclusions designed to increase your self-importance as much as possible. I mean, seriously, it's worse than useless.

This article is also written as if these findings are earth shattering. After conducting a small, biased, invalid study (Asking people in San Diego about an Australian election? How does that generalize to anything?) and finding a large effect Epstein says 'We did not immediately uncork the Champagne bottle'. Is that how psychology research is conducted? Researchers toasting large implausible effects in small biased samples that have no external validity?

Flagged.

Re: The New Mind Control – The internet has spawned subtle forms of influence

#96
As much as I would love to imagine some powerful people intentionally influencing search results on a big scale, Google and Facebook and Twitter have no real way to make money from it. I would argue that it would only drive people away. I am sure that it happens to a certain degree, look at the marketing of Bernie Sanders on reddit, but a much bigger influence is your social circle and your source of new information. Social media mirrors people's attitude. If you see new tweets about an issue you don't particularly care for, there's a good chance that people you follow do care. It's basic psychology that you befriend people who share your views and interests. If all of your friends tweet or like or show interest in something then twitter will assume you do too. Twitter makes money from user engagement and so it's logical to show you things that your friends agree with because chances are you will too. I think a real issue is the lack of a source of unbiased information. Relevant information and information you agree with are very different things.

Re: The New Mind Control – The internet has spawned subtle forms of influence

#97
Oh god. This article is so fucking disappointing.

What a quaint boogey man this "Search Engine Manipulation Effect" is. It even has it's own obscure little acronym, SEME, to appear more relevant.

I learned about the subtle effects of advertising by the time I was in fourth grade, and certainly understood how to ignore them by middle school.

Back when special holographic foil comic book covers and trading cards were new, I had already figured out that all of these "collectibles" were mass-produced, and would never wind up as valuable as, say Action Comics Issue#1, despite so many claims otherwise. This was something you could kind of figure out on your own. If your were easily amused by shiny objects though, you might not arrive at the same conclusion.

Meanwhile anyone could figure out that the influence of single frame inserts in movies was as potent and realistic as the subliminal messaging in John Carpenter's Sci-fi movie, THEY LIVE.

So too, with Search Engines.

Figure if a fourth grader can figure out the shenanigans of opinion and belief influence in advertising, and unravel the bullshit of religion before high school ends, then this other newer form of bullshit is similarly debunked by comparable intellects. If you're so stupid that you buy into bullshit, without multiple channels of factual verification, you're your own worst enemy.

Okay, okay, maybe this is good reading material for an elementary school classroom assignment, focused on current events. Sure, why not?

I was hoping this would be about technological manifestations of psychic telepathy through malicious use of functional MRI systems.

Bah!

Re: The New Mind Control – The internet has spawned subtle forms of influence

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article provides both scientifically acquired evidence and some analysis. That's more than your comment provides, IMO.

It provides evidence that search engine rankings influence opinion, which I do not doubt. From a business perspective SEO exists for this very reason. It also provides evidence that Google as a company likely supports Hillary to at least some degree. Of this I also have no doubt. But it uses FUD to say you should connect the dots and state that Google is actively manipulating rankings to assist a particular candidate…

Totally agree with you.

I'm also really surprised that the political leanings of corporate leaders is of such importance these days.

It's like holding every single employee of Enron culpable for the actions of Ken Lay et al.

Re: The New Mind Control – The internet has spawned subtle forms of influence

#99

I remember the '90s, when the Internet as we know it was just a baby... The enthusiasm we all shared for it. Of a better future. Of true democracy in the world. Of free people, free minds. The Internet will be the cure for all the social ills that humanity has experienced in the past. People will trade and talk with each other and that's how we can have peace on Earth! We will be able to discuss, collaborate, create.…

I think the old internet still exists. Despite how terrible things have gotten in some aspects, you can still freely share ideas, data, and opinions. Yes, it makes me sad that we are forcing archaic meat-space ideas onto the internet, but, in many ways, the "core idea" of the internet moves around them.

I agree that in many ways the internet looks sad compared to what it was, but I don't think hope is lost.

Re: The New Mind Control – The internet has spawned subtle forms of influence

#100

Google doesn't need to use search results to manipulate voting behavior -- they have Google Now. Google Now currently displays cards to remind people to vote on voting day. Maybe it just happens to be more likely to show up for people that have been profiled as likely to vote for Google's favored candidate.

They may not even have to target their message. If a platform's users already have a bias (and this seems to be the case[0]), then they can display the "go vote" message globally and have the desired affect. All while waving the public good PR flag.

This assumes the platform's wishes aligns with their users, but this may be self-fulfilling.

[0] http://www.pewinternet.org/fact-sheets/politics-fact-sheet/

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