Live data from Hacker News

Staffpad: a new class of notation app

staffpad.net

91–100 of 104 posts

Re: Staffpad: a new class of notation app

#91
post #90

Now that Apple Pencil exists, I hope they consider a port. This looks amazing but I just don't think any app could convince me to buy a Windows machine.

The iPad Pro doesn't not have palm detection, as far as I know. This is kind of a deal breaker to port the app.

It has hardware palm rejection.

Re: Staffpad: a new class of notation app

#92

HN front-end devs: If you were to make a web version of this, would it be better to use canvas or svg? And why?

Hello! I make Soundslice (soundslice.com), which is interactive/reflowable sheet music in the browser, synced with audio recordings and more loveliness. I very deliberately use canvas instead of SVG.

Soundslice isn't a score editor -- "just" a renderer (as if rendering sheet music is easy...!) -- so that influenced my decision. But if I were making an editor, I might make the same decision.

The reason is performance. A single piece of sheet music (a "score") might include thousands of individual glyphs, and if each one of those is a DOM element (as with SVG), the performance just wouldn't be as good as canvas.

One big tradeoff is that, with canvas, you need to implement your own hit detection (e.g., figure out what the user clicked on). But that's not super hard, and it's the kind of thing you write once and use forever.

Here's a tech talk I gave about an earlier version of Soundslice, where I talk about the canvas advantages: http://37signals.com/talks/soundslice

Re: Staffpad: a new class of notation app

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Either. http://www.vexflow.com/ and http://www.musicxml-viewer.com/ use canvas. http://www.alphatab.net/ and http://abcjs.net/ use svg.

What would be the advantages of using one over the other. I'm in the process of refactoring/improving a web game (connwars.com) I made a while ago and I was planning on using canvas, but I don't know if svg would work better.

Use canvas if performance is important. Use SVG if it's important to assign functionality to specific graphical elements (as opposed to rolling your own hit detection). See my comment above in this thread for more.

[Usual caveats apply...this is general advice, and I don't know your situation, etc.]

Re: Staffpad: a new class of notation app

#94
post #91
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The iPad Pro doesn't not have palm detection, as far as I know. This is kind of a deal breaker to port the app.

It has hardware palm rejection.

Can you give me a link? I tried searching around after seeing the demos, and it seems like they always have to hover their hands while writing.

Re: Staffpad: a new class of notation app

#95
post #94
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has hardware palm rejection.

Can you give me a link? I tried searching around after seeing the demos, and it seems like they always have to hover their hands while writing.

I saw this today: http://www.macrumors.com/2015/10/06/disney-artists-ipad-pro-...

"In the Periscope, Ranjo was impressed with the grip of the iPad Pro's screen when used with the Pencil, and he also was a fan of the palm rejection features. When drawing on an iPad Pro, the palm of a hand can be rested on the screen, but it's still responsive to zoom gestures."

Re: Staffpad: a new class of notation app

#96
post #45

Holy shit, this is amazing. For those that haven't written music before, previous programs are some of the clunkiest, slowest, most infuriating pieces of crap that I've ever had to deal with. This makes the process literally ten times easier, and so much more fun to use - and the MP3 export? Amazing. I'm actually considering using Windows because of this and the new hardware. If you had told me that two days ago I an…

It is a very cool piece of tech to be sure, but as a composer who has used notation programs almost daily for over a decade, this really doesn't solve any new problems, and it isn't anywhere near powerful enough for professionals (yet), so most will be importing files from StaffPad into Finale/Sibelius/etc. With a MIDI keyboard and some keyboard shortcuts I can enter music extremely quickly. To write a string of 8 16…

A couple thoughts (as someone who has spent a significant chunk of time using Sibelius):

1. The keypad / MIDI keyboard input method is definitely efficient once you're good at it, but I would say it's much harder to get used to than just drawing the notation. Drawing a dotted quarter note is natural for anyone who has taken music theory. Pressing 4 (or whatever) for quarter note, then '.' for dot, then pressing a key on a different keyboard for the pitch -- it's just a pretty intricate set of steps to go through for something that would just be a few intuitive strokes of a pen.

2. A MIDI keyboard takes up noticeable space. Even though I do a fair amount of Sibelius, I don't have one in my music room -- I only have a real piano. You also need to make sure your setup has the MIDI keyboard right next to your computer, which isn't super convenient.

It's true, I'm not a professional in the sense that you mean. But I am a serious musician doing real work (some local groups perform my work, and I work on editions of old music too). If it's well executed, I'd much prefer working this way to the existing options.

Re: Staffpad: a new class of notation app

#97
post #83

Holy shit, this is amazing. For those that haven't written music before, previous programs are some of the clunkiest, slowest, most infuriating pieces of crap that I've ever had to deal with. This makes the process literally ten times easier, and so much more fun to use - and the MP3 export? Amazing. I'm actually considering using Windows because of this and the new hardware. If you had told me that two days ago I an…

never typed music... but i can't bring myself to believe there is no easy way to enter a note with 104 keys keyboard right in front of you... is it really that bad? i would imagine one keystroke per note. maybe one modifier for things like several octaves out.

The problem is the combination of note length and the actual note. Add in multiple notes played at once and you hit the 3 key limit of most consumer keyboards before most groups would be finished.

Beyond that there's also just the difficulty of mapping between the keyboard and keys, how do you easily deal with the gaps in the black keys, there's enough keys to map one to one with most of a piano but keeping that in memory while notating music is a big ask.

Re: Staffpad: a new class of notation app

#98

When I saw this my first thought was: We need something like that for Math / technical drawing. I can understand that music is a good first application of this technology, but entering mathematical and engineering-related content through such an interface could be a huge deal as well.

It's actually possible to LaTeX as fast as someone is narrating math symbols. Definitely not as fast as writing on a whiteboard, but on the same par as typing English.

Re: Staffpad: a new class of notation app

#99
post #97
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

never typed music... but i can't bring myself to believe there is no easy way to enter a note with 104 keys keyboard right in front of you... is it really that bad? i would imagine one keystroke per note. maybe one modifier for things like several octaves out.

The problem is the combination of note length and the actual note. Add in multiple notes played at once and you hit the 3 key limit of most consumer keyboards before most groups would be finished. Beyond that there's also just the difficulty of mapping between the keyboard and keys, how do you easily deal with the gaps in the black keys, there's enough keys to map one to one with most of a piano but keeping that in m…

Well, if you're even remotely serious about it, you'd rather buy a midi keyboard rather then using a qwerty one.

Re: Staffpad: a new class of notation app

#100

Holy shit, this is amazing. For those that haven't written music before, previous programs are some of the clunkiest, slowest, most infuriating pieces of crap that I've ever had to deal with. This makes the process literally ten times easier, and so much more fun to use - and the MP3 export? Amazing. I'm actually considering using Windows because of this and the new hardware. If you had told me that two days ago I an…

> For those that haven't written music before, previous programs are some of the clunkiest, slowest, most infuriating pieces of crap that I've ever had to deal with.

Well, first of all - this is not the app to write music. It's the app to write music score. Although they brag about playback with something akin to a sample-based orchestra, there's not even a hint on traditional DAW capabilities, so you'll have to export the result midi into your DAW of choice and then get into the the whole music-writing process other than arranging anyway.

And on other hand, have you tried the latest Logic? It seems pretty great when it comes to the score interface. Unlike this app, it's also one of the best DAWs out there, and has an enormous default sound library.

Post reply on HN