Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software • Hacker News Board

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#91

Post by ryandrake » Fri, Sep 18, 2015, 5:42 PM UTC

CodeWriter23 wrote: post #20

I don't understand how California detected this. The one time I had to take my 2010 Jetta turbo diesel for a smog check, the inspection was ENTIRELY visual. The inspector did not insert a probe into the tailpipe. He did plug the test rig into the OBD-II port under the steering column and turn the key to the accessory position (presumably to electronically capture the VIN), but that's it. I even asked him at the end i…

California's CARB is the gestapo of car emissions. If anyone has the motivation, expertise, and evil disposition to detect this, it's the state of California. I've never lived in a state like this. Bi-yearly tailpipe sniffs and visual inspections. Even if your car's emissions are cleaner than their ridiculous requirements, they'll still fail your car if it has parts on it that are not stock. I ended up having to sell my car to someone out of state because I'm not going to swap in and out my carefully customized (and clean) intake and exhaust system every two years just so they can shine a flashlight in and see stock parts.

I'm not shocked that California is a part of this.

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#92

Post by izacus » Fri, Sep 18, 2015, 5:42 PM UTC

kaffeemitsahne wrote: post #28

dayjah wrote: post #26

When I last bought a VW (2008) I was concerned due to a clunking noise after first starting it up and driving a few miles; I called the VW service dept and they explained that there was a compressor which captured exhaust fumes and released them at a lower rate for the first few miles of each journey -- to help them meet EPA emissions standards. I was assured there was nothing to worry about. While this is a differen…

Just like sports, even stiffer fine and ruined reputation on being caught cheating.

How about a temporarily sales ban? Not a fine, just telling them "No new VW are going to be accepted into traffic for the next 12 months."

Cruel, but I bet it's effective.

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#93

Post by thrownaway2424 » Fri, Sep 18, 2015, 5:42 PM UTC

beachstartup wrote: post #34

jcreedon wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure about CA specifically, but some states only do full inspections on newer vehicles every other year. e.g. In a particular year the odd year models get the full inspection and the even year models just get a quick inspection and then vice versa in the next year.

ca doesn't even do smog checks on newer vehicles (i believe 5 years, not sure though). i haven't done one in over a decade because i lease my cars as a business expense. also, ca has 'test-only' smog centers which do not perform repairs - if you fail there, you have to get your car tested and repaired somewhere else. needless to say ca highly incentivizes you to buy new clean cars. it quickly becomes very expensive t…

The 6-year exemption for new vehicles does not apply to diesels. Diesel cars are required to get smogged every two years.

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#94

Post by joshrotenberg » Fri, Sep 18, 2015, 5:42 PM UTC

thrownaway2424 wrote: post #86

bpodgursky wrote: post #60

What actually incentivizes a customer to take their car to a shop to get this fixed though? It's not causing harm to individual car owners, and it's not like they can get collections agencies to sieze them. Seems like they're going to have trouble getting compliance here...

In California CARB can order all of these cars to be inspected and if they aren't, the DMV won't renew the registrations.

OK, didn't know if that was something that was done or not (see my response below).

I'm in CA, just had to renew my registration and get my car smogged a couple months ago (its a 2013). It passed, of course.

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#95

Post by cordite » Fri, Sep 18, 2015, 5:43 PM UTC

Alex3917 wrote: post #65

Instead of fining the manufacturer, just fine everyone who owns one. If every VW owner was forced to pay 20k or so, the problem would fix itself.

I'm not sure if you are satirical.

How would fining the end users solve the problem?

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#96

Post by Hermel » Fri, Sep 18, 2015, 5:44 PM UTC

If these controllers were open source, drivers could decide on their engine settings themselves. That could be an interestimg strategy for VW as it would move responsibility to the drivers.

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#97

Post by swang » Fri, Sep 18, 2015, 5:44 PM UTC

I love the look/feel/drive of a VW, but I will never again own one.

My parents bought a 2002 VW which I mostly drove and the maintenance costs were through the roof. There have been at least 3-4 recall notices, one time while parked on an incline, it rained and flooded the back of the car with water. When I went to VW, they said that I had to manually clean out some drainage underneath the car. How the hell am I going to do that?

Then the coolant leaks, engine belts, cracked radiator. You name it I probably had to get it fixed.

Never again.

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#98

Post by aidenn0 » Fri, Sep 18, 2015, 5:44 PM UTC

I drive a mazda, and my car definitely runs rich (visible buildup on tailpipe, the exhaust smells like gasoline when the engine is cold), but it just passed its first emissions test (at 6 years old) showing no detectable gasoline. I wonder if there's some gaming going on there too.

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#99

Post by s1lver » Fri, Sep 18, 2015, 5:44 PM UTC

spydum wrote: post #81

dayjah wrote: post #26

When I last bought a VW (2008) I was concerned due to a clunking noise after first starting it up and driving a few miles; I called the VW service dept and they explained that there was a compressor which captured exhaust fumes and released them at a lower rate for the first few miles of each journey -- to help them meet EPA emissions standards. I was assured there was nothing to worry about. While this is a differen…

Perhaps the noise was poorly explained. What they describe is likely the Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhaust_gas_recirculation ). This isn't a system to game emissions, it's an active component in real emissions reduction. Still I get your point: manufacturers are clearly going to optimize based on the measured metrics. How do we know those metrics are meaningful in the overall syst…

ERG is just a pipe from the exhaust to the intake with a valve. Compressing and carefully releasing would be much more complicated and very much a not normal way of lowering exhaust temperature to reduce emissions.

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#100

Post by izacus » Fri, Sep 18, 2015, 5:45 PM UTC

flippyhead wrote: post #37

I don't quite understand how the car can known it's getting an emissions test. I thought you just pulled up and revved the engine. Or do they plug the computer in nowadays?

Uhm, the emissions test you do every year (I guess in some US states is the same as in EU where you have to measure that yearly?) is different than emissions test that's done on each new model of car before allowing them to be sold and then entered into official specifications.

Remember there are restrictions like EURO5 etc. that impose higher taxes, city environmental taxes and even outright ban cars from being sold on the basis of these specifications.